Backporting PF2 monsters to PF1


Conversions


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I've been trying to port back some of the new PF2 monster abilities onto their PF1 equivalents, but I don't think I understand where the DC numbers are coming from in PF2 and how to replicate that in PF1.

Example: the 2e owlbear's bloodcurdling scream has a DC20 Will save. If I treat that as a supernatural ability in 1e, and assume that Charisma is the relevant stat, I get a DC 12 (10+1/2HD+mod) which is considerably less impressive and most or all of the party is liable to save.

So obviously that's pretty lame. But I don't really understand what I should be doing to get a better number.

Can anyone offer me some advice to converting monster abilities backwards? There don't seem to be formulae for PCs in 2e, so was the DC20 just chosen out of the air or what is going on?

I would love some help or advice in general on this topic.

thanks!


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Eh, Ability Focus is the only RAW option that comes to mind. Still, since giving monsters new abilities is strictly beyond RAW you can always say they key off some other ability score, like Strength. That will increase the DC to 16. Or say that the DC is 10+HD rather than 1/2 HD, which would make it DC 15.


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Just use the PF1 Owlbear rules.....


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Well, I enjoy many of the tweaks and additional powers given to the PF2 monsters (e.g. the otyugh's reposition or the lizardfolk vs. enemies in difficult terrain) and I like to change monsters so they're a little different for the many veterans in my group.

Do either of you know PF2 well enough to "translate" what that DC20 on the owlbear's screech would be if directly brought back to PF1?

Is a DC20 equally hard to hit in PF2 as in PF1, or is it an easier hurdle somehow?


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Don't know enough about P2. I'd head over to the P2 boards and ask for help there. Still, a brief look at P1 and P2 versions of creatures indicates that DCs (as well as other numbers) are higher in P2.

The major consideration is if you want these new abilities to be a major component of the adjusted creature or just a little bonus. If the former, just accept that the DC isn't particularly high and the terrifying presence is just icing on the cake of the danger of a CR 4 monster. If the latter, and you want a difficult DC, you have (to my knowledge) little option other than to just fiat a higher DC and should consider increasing the CR to reflect that many parties will be seriously inconvenienced by it (given that CR is a good CR for the existing owlbear).


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Owlbear is a CR 4 creature (as Bjørn already pointed out), so its special abilities should have a DC of about 15 (for primary abilities) or about 10 (for secondary ones). It's all in the Bestiary 1-1 table.

I don't see any need to bother with P2 math: After all you want to tweak a P1 monster, P2 is just an inspiration. Usually you won't need a DC formula either. Something like "10 + HD/2 + ability modifier" only matters when HD or modifier actually change.

Dark Archive

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Yolande d'Bar wrote:
Example: the 2e owlbear's bloodcurdling scream has a DC20 Will save. If I treat that as a supernatural ability in 1e, and assume that Charisma is the relevant stat, I get a DC 12 (10+1/2HD+mod) which is considerably less impressive and most or all of the party is liable to save.

Use Con instead of Cha as the relevant stat (adds +4 DC) and / or toss on a free Ability Focus (+2 more DC). Both together gets you to DC 18, which is well above the DC 15 'target' for that HD of beastie, so the DC 16 without the Ability Focus might be fine.

Con is often the go-to stat for stuff like poisons, breath weapons or other 'physical abilities,' while Cha would be for more spell-like magical abilities.

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