Help With A Build


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So I have been theorycrafting a build combining Drunken Master, Monk of the Four Winds and some other stuff to get a lot of attacks per round.

Unfortunately the Slow Time ability of the Monk of the Four Winds is quite limiting:

Monk of The Four Winds wrote:
At 12th level, a monk of the four winds can use his ki to slow time or quicken his movements, depending on the observer. As a swift action, the monk can expend 6 ki points to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one. The monk can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions. Any move actions the monk makes this turn do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

For the build to work I need to somehow be able to use the standard actions of slow time to ready an action (to Rhino Charge). The only way I've found so far is the Constable Cavalier's 11th level ability but the build only has room for 3 levels of dips. So my question is if there is a way to do this without spending more than 3 levels?

Also, the build would work very well with abundant step but unfortunately trades it away and qinggong can't get abilities traded away by archetypes.
The Student of Perfection prestige class seems to work but needs a Lawful alignment and the build depends on the Divine Fighting Technique of Cayden Cailaen which forces us onto a neutral good alignment on a monk (by using the Enlightened Warrior trait and a one level dip in inquisitor or cleric or warpriest). So is there a way to either
1. Be a divine caster of Cayden Cailaen while staying lawful (i.e. two steps away) or
2. Get abundant step on a Neutral Good Monk of The Four Winds?


I don't really see a problem with a readied action for the Rhino charge, provided you don't use your move action during the round you set it up.

I'm just not sure how you qualify for Divine Fighting Technique of Cayden Cailaen. It's not really one I know, but from the d20pfsrd page, it seems the prerequisite is to have the same alignment as the deity it is tied to.

I see the Aasimar Enlightened Warrior trait allows you to take levels in monk while still Neutral or Neutral Good, but Cayden Cailaen is Chaotic Good. So this doesn't help you. Unless I am missing something else?


1. i don't see why you want specifically that prestige class, can you explain what exactly you'd like to have from it?
maybe a compromise can be found (such as for #2)

2. you can take the Conduit feat flickering step to gain a sla of dimension door 1/day +1/5 levels.
do notice as Conduit feat. there are cases and places where it might not work.

---------------------------

also point of fact. what do you consider " a lot of attacks?"
cause an unchained monk with the right build can get like 10 attacks or more at level 12-16 depend on how you make him.

built with medusa's wrath and elbow smash can get 12 attacks at level 16 with haste and 1 ki point for extra attack for example, great for jabbing style masters

+16 (normal attack)/+16/+16 (for flurry)/+16/+16 (medusa's wrath)/+16 (haste)/+16 ki point extra attack/ +11 (normal bab -5 attack)/ +11/+11 (elbow smash extra attacks,non lethal damage)/+6 normal attack/+1 normal bab -10 attack.

and this is on a build made to also have enough feats to gain jabbing master, if not he can use the feats to get bonus swift attack with intimidating via Cornugon Smash + hurtful to save ki points and make sure target is shaken to get the extra attacks from madusa's wrath via Shatter Defenses (scaled fist monk get easier access).


Skull wrote:

I don't really see a problem with a readied action for the Rhino charge, provided you don't use your move action during the round you set it up.

I'm just not sure how you qualify for Divine Fighting Technique of Cayden Cailaen. It's not really one I know, but from the d20pfsrd page, it seems the prerequisite is to have the same alignment as the deity it is tied to.

I see the Aasimar Enlightened Warrior trait allows you to take levels in monk while still Neutral or Neutral Good, but Cayden Cailaen is Chaotic Good. So this doesn't help you. Unless I am missing something else?

An inquisitor, warpriest or cleric of the deity can gain the initial benefit without meeting any prerequisites (including without having the feat) by giving up one of the 1st level powers of their domain.

You can be neutral good and still be a warpriest of Cayden Cailaen so I take a level dip in warpriest to make it work.

Also, readying an action is a standard action unless stated. Rhino charge is fun like that. So the problem with readying an action isn't the total action economy but the fact that readying an action is presumably not a "melee attack action, a skill, an extraordinary ability, or a move action"


TheKillerCorgi wrote:
Skull wrote:

I don't really see a problem with a readied action for the Rhino charge, provided you don't use your move action during the round you set it up.

I'm just not sure how you qualify for Divine Fighting Technique of Cayden Cailaen. It's not really one I know, but from the d20pfsrd page, it seems the prerequisite is to have the same alignment as the deity it is tied to.

I see the Aasimar Enlightened Warrior trait allows you to take levels in monk while still Neutral or Neutral Good, but Cayden Cailaen is Chaotic Good. So this doesn't help you. Unless I am missing something else?

An inquisitor, warpriest or cleric of the deity can gain the initial benefit without meeting any prerequisites (including without having the feat) by giving up one of the 1st level powers of their domain.

You can be neutral good and still be a warpriest of Cayden Cailaen so I take a level dip in warpriest to make it work.

Okay... But how are you taking the Drunken Master and Monk of the Four Winds levels without being Lawful?


zza ni wrote:

1. i don't see why you want specifically that prestige class, can you explain what exactly you'd like to have from it?

maybe a compromise can be found (such as for #2)

2. you can take the Conduit feat flickering step to gain a sla of dimension door 1/day +1/5 levels.
do notice as Conduit feat. there are cases and places where it might not work.

---------------------------

also point of fact. what do you consider " a lot of attacks?"
cause an unchained monk with the right build can get like 10 attacks or more at level 12-16 depend on how you make him.

built with medusa's wrath and elbow smash can get 12 attacks at level 16 with haste and 1 ki point for extra attack for example, great for jabbing style masters

+16 (normal attack)/+16/+16 (for flurry)/+16/+16 (medusa's wrath)/+16 (haste)/+16 ki point extra attack/ +11 (normal bab -5 attack)/ +11/+11 (elbow smash extra attacks,non lethal damage)/+6 normal attack/+1 normal bab -10 attack.

and this is on a build made to also have enough feats to gain jabbing master, if not he can use the feats to get bonus swift attack with intimidating via Cornugon Smash + hurtful to save ki points and make sure target is shaken to get the extra attacks from madusa's wrath via Shatter Defenses (scaled fist monk get easier access).

That prestige class is the only way I've found to get back abundant step on a monk which has traded it out (from the Ki Power ability at 2nd level). Tell me if there's another way.

And flickering step won't work unfortunately as the build ideally uses abundant step three times per round.

By a lot of attacks I mean three full attacks per round (though you need to subtract 2-3 attacks per round and a bit more if you're using abundant step to fuel the ki).


@ skull
his problem was the prestige class he was looking for had to be lawful (he got the monk to be N.G. with trait). and L.G. is 2 steps away from his chosen god which is to far even for most divine casters.


i don't see how you get 3 full attacks per round if the ability doesn't let you ready (anything let alone a charge) nor combine the action to form full attack.
unless you can find an extraordinary ability that let you charge.


zza ni wrote:

@ skull

his problem was the prestige class he was looking for had to be lawful (he got the monk to be N.G. with trait). and L.G. is 2 steps away from his chosen god which is to far even for most divine casters.

Oh right, sorry hectic day at work.


zza ni wrote:

i don't see how you get 3 full attacks per round if the ability doesn't let you ready a charge nor combine the action to form full attack.

unless you can find an extraordinary ability that let you charge.

The build currently relies on a constable cavalier cohort (by me being a sensei monk) but relying on leadership is a bit unsatisfying.

And I know the ability doesn't allow readying actions in its vanilla form. That is the whole reason I started this thread.


so..
your a monk (sensei\drunken\four winds)

drunken change:
Still Mind; Purity of Body; Diamond Body; Diamond Soul; Empty Body

four winds cahnge:
Stunning Fist; Abundant Step; Timeless Body; Perfect Self

and sensei change:
Flurry of Blows; Fast Movement; Improved Evasion; Evasion; 2nd, 6th, 12th, 18th-level Bonus Feats

seem to work so far.

but the cavalier.. he can make you get a standard action with his action, but right after you are dazed for a round. which mean you can't take any more actions even if he give you an other action before the end of his turn. (" Taking the action dazes the ally for 1 round afterward.)
you'd need to counter the daze somehow or next turn you can't do anything.


on the other hand. if your cavalier is from the right order and at level 15. he can get you a free charge along with him. that allow you to charge (and i guess that you have some pounce ability) in your turn and once more on his as immediate action.


zza ni wrote:

so..

your a monk (sensei\drunken\four winds)

drunken change:
Still Mind; Purity of Body; Diamond Body; Diamond Soul; Empty Body

four winds cahnge:
Stunning Fist; Abundant Step; Timeless Body; Perfect Self

and sensei change:
Flurry of Blows; Fast Movement; Improved Evasion; Evasion; 2nd, 6th, 12th, 18th-level Bonus Feats

seem to work so far.

but the cavalier.. he can make you get a standard action with his action, but right after you are dazed for a round. which mean you can't take any more actions even if he give you an other action before the end of his turn. (" Taking the action dazes the ally for 1 round afterward.)
you'd need to counter the daze somehow or next turn you can't do anything.

There's the Padma Blossom which makes you immune to the dazed condition while holding it and there's the Arms of the Marilith that gives you extra arms to hold the Padma Blossom.


nice find. didn't know of it. also as long as your full attack is with unarmed strike you can hold stuff in your hands and flurry with head-butts or something.


We need to attack with a tankard at least a few times each round to drink instead of attacking to replenish our ki because slow time costs 6 ki (reduced to 4 with 2 rings of ki mastery) so arms of the marilith is a bit better.

It would have been nice if the attacks were all unarmed strikes so that Pummeling Style would have worked to get pounce instead of a 4 level Weretouched Shifter but what can you do.

Also, we don't flurry but normal twf because I couldn't find a way to flurry with light maces and sensei trades away flurry anyway (though I won't need sensei if I can find a way to ready an action with slow time).


ok so... i found a way (get you 5 pouncing charges in a round, no follower used). it is Hella RAW and not RAI. but if you are going by the strict words alone it work...

the four winds ability let you gain +3 move actions as a swift action in 1 round right? (that still leave you with your normal move and standard action). so what you do is get the dragonfly feat chain (this kinda block pummeling style unless you can mash styles).

and now do not take your standard action and use a move to make the glide part, the feat never say that the charge part take any action. all it say is that you have to still have your normal standard action unsed.

so RAW you can swift > gain 3 moves.
move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?), move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?),move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?), tehn use your normal move to move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?). and then still have a standard action to ready a rhino charge. that is 5 charging pounces in one round with strict RAW...

rai it's obviously it meant that the charge you make, that uses the rules for charging when you only got a standard action, uses that standard action.


zza ni wrote:

ok so... i found a way (get you 5 pouncing charges in a round, no follower used). it is Hella RAW and not RAI. but if you are going by the strict words alone it work...

the four winds ability let you gain +3 move actions as a swift action in 1 round right? (that still leave you with your normal move and standard action). so what you do is get the dragonfly feat chain this kinda block pummeling style unless you can mash styles).
and now do not take your standard action and use a move to make the glide part, the feat never say that the charge part take any action. all it say is that you have to still have your normal standard action unsed.

so RAW you can swift > gain 3 moves.
move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?), move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?),move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?), tehn use your normal move to move >glide + charge (full attack pounce?). and then still have a standard action to ready a rhino charge. that is 5 charging pounces in one round with strict RAW...

rai it's obviously it meant that the charge you make, that uses the rules for charging when you only got a standard action, uses that standard action.

Huh, that's fun.

Also, slow time actually gives 3 standard actions.
That's why it's good.


yea, but the standard action are limited. and the way i used them is the limited way to use them as move action.

the thing is the feat say you have to still have your (normal) standard action. that you can charge and the charge uses the rules for charging as a standard action, but fail to say it uses said standard action to do so. it won't fly by any gm unless he's a program...

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Anyone have a solution a GM could theoretically accept?

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