Gestalt Caster


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Idk what rules you all are reading but Mystic Theurge is not illegal. The rule says,

d20SRD wrote:
Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant.

By that rule 80-90% of Pathfinder class and prestige classes are illegal. Or are you saying Brawler 20/Fighter 20 is illegal? How about all the PRC that literally only work because they scale the base class?

The easier way to handle it is that any ability based on class level cannot be higher than your character level. That also deals with the whole lv 40 animal companion thing.


VoodistMonk wrote:

Do you guys have an archer?

If not, the Arrowsong Minstrel can ranged spellstrike with arrows, and Inspire Courage for your allies... a Tuned Bowstring makes it so you don't even need to burn rounds of Performance.

Gestalt with a Admixture School Savant Arcanist, or a Sorcerer... you could bow, blast, and buff simultaneously.

Harmonic Spell

You can weave bardic music effects into your spellcasting in such a way that your spellcasting and bardic performance become indistinguishable.

Prerequisites: Bardic performance ability.

Benefit: Whenever you cast a 1st or higher level spell while you are maintaining a bardic performance, you can maintain the bardic performance for that round without expending one of your rounds of performance for the day. In addition, you can switch from one bardic performance to another as a swift action when you cast a spell while maintaining a bardic performance.

I'm liking this for casting spells and continuing the rage song. Hero lab says it works, but I haven't looked too deeply yet.

But yes, no archer currently. so we may be lacking in that area


Wait... no ranged combatants, at all? What are you all going to do against stuff that flies?


They may not have a dedicated archer, but they have at least 4 characters that can use bows. Of those 4 at least two of them have abilities that can enhance their attacks with bows. Both the paladin and the inquisitor have proficiency with composite long bows. The paladins smite evil, and the inquisitor’s bane work on any weapon they use. Both of those characters also have sneak attack which can be used with ranged attacks within 30 feet. The warpriest also has proficiency with long bow and can use spells to further enhance his ability with it spells, and maybe some class abilities. If the warpriest takes weapon focus with a ranged weapon they can use sacred weapon with it. Considering the warpriests other class is going to be ranger or fighter sparing 1 feat is not going to be that difficult. The party also has a bloodrager that can use spells to attack flying creatures.

You don’t need to be a fully optimized archer to be able to use a bow. Sure, you may not do as much damage, but you are not helpless. It annoys the crap out of me when characters wine and complain that they that they can’t do anything just because the option they have available is not as strong as their main form of attack. I had a player who was playing a high-level paladin specializing in melee combat b!~$@ed and complain that there was absolutely nothing he could do to stop the fleeing villain. The Villain was down to about 30 HP and the paladin had a bow. He had an active smite evil going on the fleeing villain and had not used his divine bond (weapon). When I pointed out that he had a bow his response was “Yea, but I am not that good with it”. The villain did not have a high flight speed and it took her at least two turns before she was even out of the first range increment of the bow. This was at the end of a fight and all the combat buffs from the other party members were still in full effect.

The OP is going to be playing focused arcane caster as one side of a gestalt. The other side of the gestalt is possibly going to be a bard or a skald. The skald gets full marital weapon proficiency so is able to use a long bow. The bard is proficient with at least a short bow. A wizard already has the ability to do ranged combat with spells. By my count 5 out of the 6 characters will have at least some ranged combat while several of the characters will have at least good ranged combat ability. The only character that might have some issues with ranged combat is the brawler/shifter. But even that character has some options vs a flying creature. Shifters get wild shape so at higher levels can simply turn into a flying creature and attack it that way. If this party has problems with ranged combat it will be because they are not fully utilizing the abilities they have.


Agreed, most of our players are all experienced enough to have a ranged weapon as a backup plan. So while we have no "dedicated" archer, we won't be helpless in that regards.


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Harmonic spell is perfect for this character. Raging song counts as the bard’s bardic performance special ability for any effects that affect bardic performances. So, the feat works with raging song.

Skald also helps the bloodrager because he can use the bonuses from his own rage instead of those the skald grants and it not fatigued when the song ends. He cannot use his own rage powers, but it does significantly increase the time he can spend in rage.

For rage powers, the celestial totem line is a good choice. Lesser celestial totem increases the healing. Both the paladin and the warpriest have swift action healing so will get a boost from this. Celestial totem is ok, it lets you light up the area around you and trigger an invisibility purge. Greater celestial totem grants spell resistance vs spells with the evil descriptor and an untyped bonus against spells and effects from evil creatures. Since the spell resistance only applies to spells with the evil descriptor it should not prevent any spells cast by the part form working. With a Paladin in the party, I have to assume none of the characters are evil so will not be casting evil spells.

Raging song should accomplish what you are looking for. It may not be a big help to your character, but it will probably be one of the most significant boost for the party. The makeup of your party makes it particularly strong. It directly boosts several of the other characters in areas they are already strong.


There is a vast difference between melee martials with ranged backup weapons, and a dedicated archer. You were talking about potent combination like Flurry and Rage or Sneak Attack... howa'bout Flurry of Bows and Bane? I have ran a campaign with an Inquisitor/Zen Archer Monk at the table capable of stealing the show when it comes to damages in any given encounter.

An Arrowsong Minstrel Bard isn't that caliber of archer, but gestalt with a blaster Arcanist or Sorcerer... all your blaster stuffs would help your Ranged Spellstrike shenanigans with your bow. And you could Inspire Courage to your allies, not even spending rounds of performance with a Tuned Bowstring. For serious blasting, when you need more than what the Bard half can attach to their arrows, you still have the Arcanist or Sorcerer half built for serious blasting.

It's not perfect, but it offers of plethora of options of your actions in any given round. Blow stuff up, Inspire Courage, shoot stuff with your bow... you have skills and Charisma, and a decent variety of arcane magics.


You could be an Elf, start with Spell Focus Conjuration and Spell Focus Evocation via alternative racial features. Put your FCB into the Arcanist half for more Arcane Reservoir points. A School Savant Arcanist can prepare extra spells, which kind of makes up for the Arrowsong Minstrel's Diminished Spellcasting. The Admixture Subschool is not limited to anything but Evocation spells, and should work with both class lists. Again, it's not perfect, but should always be able to contribute.

Feats could easily look something like this:
1. Spell Focus Conjuration
1. Spell Focus Evocation
1. Point Blank Shot
2. Precise Shot
3. Rapid Shot
5.
6. Weapon Focus
7. Manyshot
9.
11. Discordant Voice
13.

Probably going to want Greater Spell Focus in Evocation, Intensify Spell, and Extra Exploit (since School Savant trades away their 1/3/5 Exploits). Wearing a Dervish Sikke will boost your Inspire Courage bonus, and the aforementioned Tuned Bowstring could greatly reduce the number of rounds of Performance you have to use.

An Eldritch Archer-Hexcrafter Magus/Witch could probably be a better archer, but wouldn't be able to provide the same buffs to the party. They could, absolutely, provide Protective Luck/Soothsayer/Cackle... and debuff the enemy with Hexes. Different strokes for different folks, but this combination's action economy competes with itself in a way the Bard/Arcanist archer's does not.

A Skald may be a better match for the party, and you guys may absolutely not need a dedicated archer. It's just that archers seldom have to worry about moving into position every round, so they already have a relatively open action economy. And a Bard or Skald will get better action economy as you progress, which is why I really do believe either is the ticket to your gestalt.


While an archer is certainly a legitimate choice for a character it is not something that is required. Using spells to deal damage at range is an equally valid character concept.

Looking at the Arrowsong Minstrel I don’t see where it really does much for this character. For a non-gestalt bard, it is decent because it gives the character access to spells, they normally do not have access to, especially evocation spells. The thing is that the character is a full wizard on the other side, so already has access to those spells. Being able to use spell strike with a bow really does not increase the characters action economy, in fact in a lot of ways it diminishes it. If the character is casting a spell that normally affects multiple targets, it only affects a single target, and the other attacks are lost.

A bard and a wizard also have different casting stats so that forces the character to raise both stats. The point buy for the character is high enough to do so if that is what the OP wants to do, but they also have the option of using the bard spells for utility and not having to worry about the saving throw for the spells. This allows the character to focus more on INT to make their spells harder to resist.

The Arrowsong Minstrel is also giving up too much of the bard’s abilities to gain something the character can already do. They lose bardic knowledge, the majority of their performances, well versed and loremaster to gain access to spells the character already has.

Skald is a better choice than bard anyways. Fortitude saves are more important than reflex saves, and a bard has fast progression for reflex instead of fortitude. Inspired rage also seems to be a better choice than inspire courage especially when you factor in the character can grant rage powers to the entire party. There are 5 other combat focused characters in the party besides the OP. Being able to boost the STR and CON of all of them is probably a lot better than anything a bard can do. Without seeing the builds of the other characters, it is difficult to guarantee raging song is better, but for a typical melee focused group it will be.

Without taking all the normal archery feats the characters bow is not adding that much its power level. Taking the normal archery feats is going to mean the character is not taking feats to boost spell casting. That is going to result in a character that does two things fairly well, rather than a character that does one thing extremely well. The OP has already stated that the focus of this character is a full arcane caster which means their feats are going to be focused on spell casting, with little or no feats left for archery.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Skald is a better choice than bard anyways. Fortitude saves are more important than reflex saves, and a bard has fast progression for reflex instead of fortitude. Inspired rage also seems to be a better choice than inspire courage especially when you factor in the character can grant rage powers to the entire party. There are 5 other combat focused characters in the party besides the OP. Being able to boost the STR and CON of all of them is probably a lot better than anything a bard can do. Without seeing...

skald is going to be extremely dependent on group specifics.

In this case, i’d guess that the Rogue and Ninja are Dex characters, and the brawler, ranger, bloodrager are Str. And of those three, Bloodrager probably won’t benefit much from the Skald song. Where Inspire Courage is always going to give max benefit to all 5.


Skald just needs to wait until the Master Skald ability. Then their rage will stack with other player's rage. (But agreed until then its sus).

Regarding Arrowsong Minstrel, its #1 use is that it gives easy access to Arcane Archer with regular leveling since it uses class level for prestige class BAB pre-reqs. With gestalt depending on the classes picked amd the specific rules being used that may be much less needed.

Arcanist in general is a very fun and flexible class, so it would be really good in gestalt regardless of what class you pair it with. One option is Brown-Fur Transmuter Arcanist with Arrowsong Minstrel Bard/Arcane Archer, this will let you buff your stats using transmutation spells, while using Bard for AoE spells.


The bloodrager will benefit from raging song because he can use his own bonuses in place of those of the skald while under raging song. That will probably mean that he will be able to rage during every combat. It also means that he will not be fatigued after coming down from raging song, so if he needs to rage again after it ends, he can. Basically, raging song doubles the amount of time the bloodrager can rage.

The DEX based characters still gain some benefits from raging song. The increased CON will boost their fortitude saves, and raging song gives a straight-out bonus to will saves. They also gain the rage powers of the skald. If the DEX based character does not have DEX to damage it will also increase their damage.

If the majority of the other players are DEX based the urban skald archetype allows the skald to choose have a choice of which STAT to boost. This would also allow the skald to gain the benefit of raging song while still being able to cast spells. Urban skald also adds an increasing dodge bonus to AC when near two or more allies. They also get infuriating mockery which imposes a penalty on the targets AC and attack roll and makes it so the target has to make a will concentration check to cast spells.

Fine tuning the details of the characters and figuring out how the different characters interact is the whole purpose of having a session 0.


Lelomenia wrote:
I think expectation that Greater Invisibility will help you hit things reliably isn’t accurate; enemy flat footed AC is often as high as regular AC. Giants, Dragons, Undead, Oozes, Aberrations, Constructs, Outsiders etc.

Being an invisible attacker is worth +2 to attack rolls, in addition to any difference in AC. So it is not worthless even if FFAC is identical to normal AC. If the OP is looking to be a pure caster, they will mostly be targetting touch AC, and very few creatures have a strong flat-footed touch!

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

For a Skald I would stick with a vanilla skald. The things that will be most useful in this class are inspired rage, bardic knowledge, rage powers, so any archetypes that trade those away should be avoided.

Raging Song is nice with a party that wants to rage, and looking at the OP's part mentioned above I am not sure they fit the bill (there are no obvious "definitely nots" but several "maybes"). Pretty much all of them would appreciate extra plusses on their weapons from a Spell Warrior Skald though.

Temperans wrote:
Idk what rules you all are reading but Mystic Theurge is not illegal. The rule says,
d20SRD wrote:
Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant.

I suspect they are reading exactly the text you quoted, which specifically calls out Mystic Theurge (amongst others). Admittedly it says "should be prohibited" rather than "are prohibited", but that's good enough for me.

Temperans wrote:
The easier way to handle it is that any ability based on class level cannot be higher than your character level. That also deals with the whole lv 40 animal companion thing.

Something along those line is of course essential (although it does not really help with the same issues as the MT prohibition), but the OP's group seem to have plenty of experience with gestalt so I am sure they have something in place.

_
glass.


ok team. Once again I want to thank everyone for their input. this has been a very enlightening experience for me. Even though I've been playing D&D for about 40 years, I still learned things from all of this.

So unless something major changes with the potential party build between now and session 0, it looks like I am going to plan on playing this

Gestalt/Skald/Wizard(Exploiter) Possibly a Peri-blooded Aasimar.


If you're going Skald then check out the SPELL WARRIOR archetype.

It doesn't have the problems usually associated with Rage, but it still allows you to hand out Rage Powers to all your allies. It's basicalliy the caster-friendly version of Skald.

You also get some dispel-magic tricks which can be fun, but I don't know how effective it really is. The main downside of the archetype is that you lose Spell Kenning, bus if you're also a wizard that's probably less of an issue.


Spell Warrior looks cool, but we have found most dispelling to me mediocre at best. And the weapon bonus looks nice, until you look closer at it. with 5 party members, the enhancement bonus would at best give them all a +2 bonus, or at low levels give one a +1, versus the vanilla skald giving them all an effective +1 bonus at low levels and all of them a +3 at high levels. I will agree giving 1 party ember a +5 would be nice, but I think spreading the love around makes more sense in this party.


The advantage of Spell Warrior is that your party can still cast spells while under the effect of your Enhance Weapons Raging Song, which they can't do while under the effect of a regular Skald's Inspired Rage.

The dispel magic stuff is a bit "meh", it's flavourful but as you say probably not that useful. It's the pricd you pay to make your buffing-character morr caster-friendly.

I don't remember what the rest of your party is playing though, so if you don't need to be caster-friendly then you probably don't need to worry about the archetype.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The big advantage of a spell warrior's enhance weapons song is when everyone already has magic weapons. Being able to add defending, distance, flaming, frost, ghost touch, keen, returning, or shock to everybody's weapons at a moment's notice can be very useful.


Another drawback for the spell warrior is that the bonuses overlap with the existing bonus of the weapon instead of stacking. Most PC’s have magic weapons which means you are rarely going to be able to increase the chance to hit or damage on a weapon. Instead, you are going to be adding special abilities. This combined with the maximum limit on the bonus makes this a lot less useful than it seems.

A better choice than Spell Warrior would be Urban Skald. But controlled rage gives less benefits in exchange for not taking a most of the disadvantages of rage. If the party has a substantial number of DEX focused characters this might be better. But if most of the characters are STR based the standard skald is probably better. It would also give him some extra AC and infuriating mockery allows him to debuff opponents.

Dark Archive

urban skald can give bonuses that would help buff


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Another drawback for the spell warrior is that the bonuses overlap with the existing bonus of the weapon instead of stacking. Most PC’s have magic weapons which means you are rarely going to be able to increase the chance to hit or damage on a weapon. Instead, you are going to be adding special abilities. This combined with the maximum limit on the bonus makes this a lot less useful than it seems.

A better choice than Spell Warrior would be Urban Skald. But controlled rage gives less benefits in exchange for not taking a most of the disadvantages of rage. If the party has a substantial number of DEX focused characters this might be better. But if most of the characters are STR based the standard skald is probably better. It would also give him some extra AC and infuriating mockery allows him to debuff opponents.

The maximum limit is +10 bonus equivalent and that require 200k gp. Skald has plenty of space to add stuff, and it saves all the players some 80k-120k on that last few bonuses.

Also while Urban giving a morale bonus to dex is nice, there are spells that give much better morale bonus overall. Like say for example Good Hope which is a +2 to most rolls, or Heroism which is always good.


Urban skald gives a +2 moral bonus to one DEX (or whatever), which increases your DEX-bonus to attack rolls.

Good Hope or Heroism give a Morale bonus directly to attack rolls.

You can stack them.


Temperans wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Another drawback for the spell warrior is that the bonuses overlap with the existing bonus of the weapon instead of stacking. Most PC’s have magic weapons which means you are rarely going to be able to increase the chance to hit or damage on a weapon. Instead, you are going to be adding special abilities. This combined with the maximum limit on the bonus makes this a lot less useful than it seems.

A better choice than Spell Warrior would be Urban Skald. But controlled rage gives less benefits in exchange for not taking a most of the disadvantages of rage. If the party has a substantial number of DEX focused characters this might be better. But if most of the characters are STR based the standard skald is probably better. It would also give him some extra AC and infuriating mockery allows him to debuff opponents.

The maximum limit is +10 bonus equivalent and that require 200k gp. Skald has plenty of space to add stuff, and it saves all the players some 80k-120k on that last few bonuses.

What we are taking about is the spell warrior enhance weapon class ability. It replaces a skalds raging song with the ability to add an enhancement bonus to weapons its ally are using. The maximum bonus that enhance weapon can grant is +5 for a single target. If it affects more targets its maximum bonus is reduced. If it affects 4 or more weapons its maximum bonus is limited to +2.

Enhance weapon states that the bonus overlap so it would actually allow a weapon to exceed the +10 limit. But since they overlap the actual bonus to hit and damage do not stack. For example if a character has a +3 weapon and the spell warrior uses it to add +2 for all party members the character with the +3 weapon gains no benefit. The spell warrior could use it to add flaming burst to all the weapons instead, but any weapon that does not have at least a +1 bonus would gain no benefit from it if he did. The enchantments are also restricted to a very limited number of specific enchantments.

The bonuses are not permanent and end when enhance weapon ends. Since the bonus is not always going to be active, any character who’s build requires a specific enchantment would be better of getting that on the weapon.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Another drawback for the spell warrior is that the bonuses overlap with the existing bonus of the weapon instead of stacking. Most PC’s have magic weapons which means you are rarely going to be able to increase the chance to hit or damage on a weapon. Instead, you are going to be adding special abilities. This combined with the maximum limit on the bonus makes this a lot less useful than it seems.

A better choice than Spell Warrior would be Urban Skald. But controlled rage gives less benefits in exchange for not taking a most of the disadvantages of rage. If the party has a substantial number of DEX focused characters this might be better. But if most of the characters are STR based the standard skald is probably better. It would also give him some extra AC and infuriating mockery allows him to debuff opponents.

The maximum limit is +10 bonus equivalent and that require 200k gp. Skald has plenty of space to add stuff, and it saves all the players some 80k-120k on that last few bonuses.

What we are taking about is the spell warrior enhance weapon class ability. It replaces a skalds raging song with the ability to add an enhancement bonus to weapons its ally are using. The maximum bonus that enhance weapon can grant is +5 for a single target. If it affects more targets its maximum bonus is reduced. If it affects 4 or more weapons its maximum bonus is limited to +2.

Enhance weapon states that the bonus overlap so it would actually allow a weapon to exceed the +10 limit. But since they overlap the actual bonus to hit and damage do not stack. For example if a character has a +3 weapon and the spell warrior uses it to add +2 for all party members the character with the +3 weapon gains no benefit. The spell warrior could use it to add flaming burst to all the weapons instead, but any weapon that does not have at least a +1 bonus would gain no benefit from it if he did. The enchantments are also...

I know what you are talking about. My statement is that


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Another drawback for the spell warrior is that the bonuses overlap with the existing bonus of the weapon instead of stacking. Most PC’s have magic weapons which means you are rarely going to be able to increase the chance to hit or damage on a weapon. Instead, you are going to be adding special abilities. This combined with the maximum limit on the bonus makes this a lot less useful than it seems.

A better choice than Spell Warrior would be Urban Skald. But controlled rage gives less benefits in exchange for not taking a most of the disadvantages of rage. If the party has a substantial number of DEX focused characters this might be better. But if most of the characters are STR based the standard skald is probably better. It would also give him some extra AC and infuriating mockery allows him to debuff opponents.

The maximum limit is +10 bonus equivalent and that require 200k gp. Skald has plenty of space to add stuff, and it saves all the players some 80k-120k on that last few bonuses.

What we are taking about is the spell warrior enhance weapon class ability. It replaces a skalds raging song with the ability to add an enhancement bonus to weapons its ally are using. The maximum bonus that enhance weapon can grant is +5 for a single target. If it affects more targets its maximum bonus is reduced. If it affects 4 or more weapons its maximum bonus is limited to +2.

Enhance weapon states that the bonus overlap so it would actually allow a weapon to exceed the +10 limit. But since they overlap the actual bonus to hit and damage do not stack. For example if a character has a +3 weapon and the spell warrior uses it to add +2 for all party members the character with the +3 weapon gains no benefit. The spell warrior could use it to add flaming burst to all the weapons instead, but any weapon that does not have at least a +1 bonus would gain no benefit from it if he did. The enchantments are also...

I know what you are talking about. My statement is that if you look at the maximum from the point of view of the weapon the ability is good since it lets the player not need to spend that gold on generic bonuses. If you look at it from the Skald ability its good because you are giving whatever bonus your party needs when they need it.

Yes people will get the enchantment that they want for their build. But there are very few people who actually get ghost touch, speed, all three of the elemental enchantments, etc. Which remember you can give 2 +1 abilities or 1 +2 ability to every party member, including animal companions.


MrCharisma wrote:

Urban skald gives a +2 moral bonus to one DEX (or whatever), which increases your DEX-bonus to attack rolls.

Good Hope or Heroism give a Morale bonus directly to attack rolls.

You can stack them.

Yes, but you could also stack a free enchantment is my point. +2 to dex is not necessarily better than saving money.


Unless there is some specific strategy in mind for handing out Rage Powers, then I feel Skald is a downgrade from Bard. You can straight up break Inspire Courage's bonus skyhigh, and it stacks with everything anyone could have going on. Why complicate it?

I am certainly biased towards Bard, though. Bards make buffing easy, they are literally designed to make buffing easy. It's their "thing". If you just want something to be the back half of a gestalt, Bards can be pretty much run on autopilot... just pay attention to what action it takes to start Inspire Courage. That's it.

I honestly do not see the advantage of the Skald unless you have a specific strategy involving Rage Powers.


VoodistMonk wrote:

Unless there is some specific strategy in mind for handing out Rage Powers, then I feel Skald is a downgrade from Bard. You can straight up break Inspire Courage's bonus skyhigh, and it stacks with everything anyone could have going on. Why complicate it?

I am certainly biased towards Bard, though. Bards make buffing easy, they are literally designed to make buffing easy. It's their "thing". If you just want something to be the back half of a gestalt, Bards can be pretty much run on autopilot... just pay attention to what action it takes to start Inspire Courage. That's it.

I honestly do not see the advantage of the Skald unless you have a specific strategy involving Rage Powers.

Skalds can use spells from other lists, there are plenty of rage powers that are widely applicable, have better defenses due to uncanny dodge and innate DR. Also if someone has an innate rage Skald makes it so they are not fatigued at the end (great if their rage powers are not currently applicable).


That's fair. Like I said, I'm a little biased... and honestly have not explored the Skald class in depth, at all.


Flexible Fury is a 3rd level spell for a skald. It allows you to temporarily change on of your rage powers. This allows the skald to grant a lot of different rage powers to suit the needs of the party. If the party is fighting evil outsiders, he grants lesser celestial blood. If they are fighting creatures that use a specific elemental type of damage, he grants the appropriate energy resistance. If they are fighting incorporeal creatures, he grants ghost rager.

If the campaign is focused on type of foe there are rage powers that can be extremely useful. For example, if the campaign is focused on fighting evil foes the celestial rage powers can be really useful.

One thing to keep in mind about inspire courage is it is a moral bonus to hit. That is probably one of, if not the most common bonuses to hit, moral bonuses to less common so there is a greater chance of it stacking. The most common stat bonus is an enhancement bonus.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
One thing to keep in mind about inspire courage is it is a moral bonus to hit.

Good tips generally, but this part is incorrect ...

BARD wrote:
Inspire Courage (Su): A 1st-level bard can use his performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to perceive the bard's performance. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 5th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 17th level. Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. Inspire courage can use audible or visual components. The bard must choose which component to use when starting his performance.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
One thing to keep in mind about inspire courage is it is a moral bonus to hit.

Usually I’m the one confusing 3.5 abilities with PF… inspire courage isn’t a morale bonus to hit in PF, it’s Competence… it was a morale bonus in 3.5 though.

Also earlier you stated that the Urban Skald archetype allows the Skald to cast spells while under the effects of their raging song… the archetype is not required for that, a Skald can always cast spells while under the effect of their own raging song. Urban Skald, however, allows your ALLIES to cast spells while under the effect of your raging song.


You guys are right about the bonus type on inspire courage. I was tired and did not look it up to verify.

One thing about raging song is that each ally can choose from turn to turn whether to accept it. This means that if a party member who wants to do something not allowed by raging song all they have to do is to not accept it for that turn and then accept it on their next turn. Raging song unlike a barbarian's rage has no negative effects when it ends. This will allow other party members to cast a spell or use other class abilities when needed by simply not accepting the benefits on the round they want to act.

With both a paladin and a warpriest in the party that gives two characters that have channel energy. The rage power lesser celestial totem will heal an extra amount when those are used equal to the level of the character channeling energy. If the characters with channel energy have selective channel this might make in combat healing more useful. Both of those characters have swift action healing available to them if they only use it on themselves. It is not really clear if these abilities can be used while under raging song. If they can this line of rage powers becomes very useful to the whole party. Celestial totem causes the person under it to shine with light equivalent to the spell daylight and trigger a purge invisibility, which is an ok rage power. But greater celestial totem gives the target spell resistance only vs spells with an evil descriptor and a +2 untyped bonus on all saves from evil creatures. Since there is a paladin in the group I doubt any of he players are going to be using evil spells, and an untyped bonus to saves is always welcome.


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MrCharisma wrote:

Urban skald gives a +2 moral bonus to one DEX (or whatever), which increases your DEX-bonus to attack rolls.

Good Hope or Heroism give a Morale bonus directly to attack rolls.

You can stack them.

Or more precisely, since they apply to different things you can benefit from both without needing to stack them.

_
glass.

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