Which Demon Lord / Apocalypse Horesman / Harbinger To Choose for the Following?!?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


This is for a Homebrew inspired-by and expansion of the adventure Tears at Bitter Manor -- but so little of the Steven Helt adventure is actually being used (not in Taldor, no retired adventuring-group MacGuffin, no 'ancient, ruined' manor house, etc.) that it's much more a 'General Discussion' question than a Tears at Bitter Manor- appropriate Thread.

The point of inspiration from the module is a Daemon (which I could change to Demon or Devil) who offers an unattainable gift -- eternal youth -- to an aging NPC if, IF, said NPC tricks and traps his close friends and family so that the Daemon can torture them and feed on their souls and, all the more vile, revel in the misery of the victims who know it was their dear friend/family member who betrayed them and trapped them.

In the published adventure (unless I missed it completely, which is possible), it is not written to which of The Four Horseman (or to which Harbinger if not an Apocalypse Horseman) the Daemon serves.

But in MY game, that will be critically important. I will build the whole adventure around it.

So,...

Which Demon Lord or Apocalypse Horseman (or Harbinger or even Archdevil or Malebranche/Whore-Queen) would be a PERFECT fit according to It's Title and Area of Concern and Domains & Sub Domains?

The Fiend (BBEG) will grant an NPC some specific, incredible WISH So. Long. As. the NPC betrays his or her close friends and family such that they know it was he/her who betrayed them.
....Who should that Fiend worship?

Thanks!


So the act of betrayal is the punchline... moreso than the actual value of the souls, themselves?

Hmm... the Archdevils don't seem to have any thematically fitting areas of interest. But some of the Daemon Harbingers do... like Braismois has broken deals, fine print, and unfair deals. Stygidvod has fear of aging and radical routes to immortality. Demon Lords are severely lacking in this department... but maybe you can get Mestama (cruely/deception), Shax (envy/lies/muder), or Yhidothrus (age/time) to work for this? Of the Infernal Dukes, I think Ose fits best, with betrayal, doom, and obsession as areas of concern. For the Malebranche, I think Alichino (deception/royalty) is probably better than Malacoda (conquest/martial skill)... unless the NPC wants eternal youth to preserve their physical prowess.

Honestly, unless you are really playing the soul trade aspect of this, I wouldn't touch the Horsemen. They are pretty one-sided... each dedicated to their single focus (Pestilence, Death, War, and Famine)... none of which seem to actually have anything to do with betrayal being special to the cause.


Voodist Monk wrote:
So the act of betrayal is the punchline... moreso than the actual value of the souls, themselves?

Yeah, that's what really stands out to me as inspiration from the published text. The adventure module, of course, uses a Daemon as this Fiend, though it doesn't matter to me which of the three Evil Outsider alignments the BBEG is -- it could be a Kyton Cenobite (They love torture.) for all I care.

An Evil Outsider 'god' that loves to feed on people's pain of being betrayed or tricked by a loved one. I've never read anything of the Infernal Duke, Ose, so I'll grab the book and take a look. And thinking about it, I will consider good ol' Lolth from FR and make this a Drow thing. And I'll also take a good look at The Kyton Demagogues.


Kyton Demagogues are something I skipped, thinking they might be outside of your parameters. I can also take another look at them.

You said you would look for a book with Ose in it... I am just on the AoN "Deities" page, looking at their areas of concern. I actually don't possess such an intimate knowledge of PF1 gods and devils as it may first appear.

And Drow, in my opinion and experience with them, always have something in it for themselves. There is always an agenda that further promotes the expansion of Drow territoy or idiology. They are known for torture, and fleshwarping, and diabolical transformations... but generally in the sense that it benefits the greater good of the Drow community. They have their infighting and treachery within their own ranks, but making sure all Drow advance as whole seems to a repeating motivation to their collective schemes. And I just do not see it fitting this particular story, unless there is something I am missing.


The Kyton Demagogues are actually pretty rich with the requisite flavor... Aroggus has possibility and revenge as areas of concern, if you can make the NPC's motives based on revenge against the party, with the possibility of immortality as a reward (as eternal youth, itself, offers near infinite possibility). Barravoclair has the elderly, resurrection, and fantastic insights. Even Vevelor has the illusion of freedom, potential, and transcendance... all of which could potentially fit your theme.


Mestama, the Demon Lord, may be of more use than Drow since they [Mestama] have Hags in their areas of concern.

And Hags, moreso than Drow, seem to be into the silly games you are talking about. Playing with an individual's fate [the NPC's] at the expense of others [the party]. Hags are the exact witches in charge of fate, after all... the Graeae, according to Greek mythos. If it is the NPC's fate to achieve eternal youth... the grey sisters are the ones pulling those strings.

If a certain Demon Lord [Mestama] was bargained with (say, for eternal youth), and that same Demon Lord happened to be THEE Demon Lord with power over Hags... this ball could be rolling in right direction. The Hags, themselves, could be the ones adding the misery of betraying the party. Mestama may not even, personally, give a $#!+ about the betrayal... Demon Lords are probably more interested in securing souls. But Hags, they do love misery... and left to their own devices, with the only objective being securing a soul, they may very well add extra stipulations to the bargain... like betraying the party, perhaps even damning their souls, as well. THE Hags get bonus points from their commanding Demon Lord if they capture extra souls.

Or whatever... the details of soul trade are difficult for mere mortals to comprehend. You don't even have to cover every aspect of why these things are happening. If you give Hags a task, they will naturally try to screw you over... just like dealing with Devils. Even their [Hags'] own gods (like Gyronna) and Demon Lords (like Mestama) are not immune to the nature of Hags to twist any and every deal in a way that ultimately screws everyone that isn't a Hag.

It's what makes Hags so much fun. Highly recommend using Hags any time you want betrayal or deception or trickery to be a theme. Otherwise, we can look for certain Fey types, because charm and trickery is right up Fey alley. I kind of hate the Fey, though, and love me some Hags. Lol.


I think I'm going with Mestama.

Thanks TONS for bouncing off some ideas with me -- sometimes it just helps to have a sounding board to help articulate just what I'm looking for and figure out a direction in which to go. After looking at your suggestions and looking at a few things myself, your idea of Mestama has really struck home.

Now, with Mestama as the Intelligence-and-Force behind the Fiend, I can develop that BBEG, design the NPC stooge that will make the horrible deal with the Fiend to betray & trap his friends, and then build a location and come up with a MacGuffin for the PCs.

Initially, I'm thinking of having the Fiend BBEG be a Lamia Matriarch Cleric of Mestama -- but we'll see.

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