An inquiry into the viability of a new flavor: Pathfinder Dark


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Silver Crusade

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Well the problem is that there have been a good half dozen threads on this same topic, and they've almost all been closed because of excessive dog whistling. But here, I did the research for you.


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I mean, you can also just ask, and people have been willing to provide.

The problem is that there are so many people who both don't know, don't care to know, and also have OPINIONS that everyone else should heed. And that's no basis for a discussion.


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"You can ask" feels like something we keep having to remind people. It's okay to ask in good faith with a neutral tone, without any barbs of "if it's what I think it is". People are incredibly reactive lately, but it's okay to focus on asking questions, then form a take based on what you learn. You don't have to come out swinging against us.

Nonspecific "you" here. This applies to a lot of people.


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Given the amount of fire Paizo has been under in the last few months I think it was the right call to respond to open concerns from one of their freelancers posted on the blog of one of Paizo's more well known former employees. If they'd let it sit and fester it would've just been more damning to their already damaged public image. Overall this move has probably done more good than bad in the eyes of their most important stakeholders.


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Norade wrote:
and this response to an open letter is anything to go by.

Other opinions about Mona aside, idk the response has largely seemed fine and the feedback I've seen has mostly been ambivalent or supportive. Not sure there's really been a big issue here.


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Squiggit wrote:
Norade wrote:
and this response to an open letter is anything to go by.
Other opinions about Mona aside, idk the response has largely seemed fine and the feedback I've seen has mostly been ambivalent or supportive. Not sure there's really been a big issue here.

If your initial press release leaves people with questions and requires clarification bordering on retraction your initial press release is a poor one. How hard is it to have the company PR team look at your reply and touch it up for you?

Silver Crusade

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It wasn't a press release. It was a single executive responding to a blog post.


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Cori Marie wrote:
It wasn't a press release. It was a single executive responding to a blog post.

That's a press release these days. Companies post news and retractions on Twitter, Mona needs to clear anything he says under his own name because people will take it as official.

EDIT: It also probably should have come as an official statement from the word go. That's the responsible way to handle things.

Silver Crusade

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It's absolutely not a press release. I get approximately 100 press releases a day, this was a response to a private blog post. There's a huge difference. Yes, press releases typically get posted to twitter, but only after they're sent to members of the press.


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Cori Marie wrote:
It's absolutely not a press release. I get approximately 100 press releases a day, this was a response to a private blog post. There's a huge difference. Yes, press releases typically get posted to twitter, but only after they're sent to members of the press.

It doesn't change the fact that it was badly worded and was Paizo's first 'official' response to the open letter.


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Norade wrote:
It doesn't change the fact that it was badly worded and was Paizo's first 'official' response to the open letter.

Her point is that it wasn’t Paizo’s official anything because it was Erik Mona replying on Erik Mona’s own behalf in the comment section of Owen’s blog. He outlines what will happen, but at no point does he claim it is Paizo’s reply. It isn’t particularly poorly worded either.


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dirtypool wrote:
Norade wrote:
It doesn't change the fact that it was badly worded and was Paizo's first 'official' response to the open letter.
Her point is that it wasn’t Paizo’s official anything because it was Erik Mona replying on Erik Mona’s own behalf in the comment section of Owen’s blog. He outlines what will happen, but at no point does he claim it is Paizo’s reply. It isn’t particularly poorly worded either.

Given his position in the company it may as well be Paizo's first word on the issue. Much like how Elon Musk's tweets are often the first word on new news for projects he's involved with. As such both men should take great care with anything they say publicly.

His statement implied that a large swathe of content was being retconned. Given that wasn't the intent it means his statement was poorly worded.


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“Might as well be Paizo’s first word on the issue” and Paizo’s actual first word on the issue are not the same thing. Just like a blog comment and a press release are not the same .

As for the wording, I drew no such conclusion about things being retconned from the statement. It could just as easily be a failing of your interpretation as of his wording.


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dirtypool wrote:
“Might as well be Paizo’s first word on the issue” and Paizo’s actual first word on the issue are not the same thing. Just like a blog comment and a press release are not the same .

I hard disagree. When an executive makes that kind of statement it is the companies word. Mona needs to realize that he can't engage on things like that without fans of the company reading it as an official statement.

Quote:
As for the wording, I drew no such conclusion about things being retconned from the statement. It could just as easily be a failing of your interpretation as of his wording.

I'm hardly the only person to have that reading, so at best it was ambiguous.


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I agree that it wasn't well-phrased, that it was a little rushed. I think that's an acceptable error, in light of the circumstances, and I appreciate Erik erring on the side of prompt transparency over cautious legalese.

That being said, his post wasn't well-worded--but people chose to interpret it as negatively as they did. Those who reacted by immediately protesting and complaining and demanding refunds didn't take Erik in good faith, and that's their responsibility as much as anyone's.


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Norade wrote:
I hard disagree. When an executive makes that kind of statement it is the companies word.

Except that the company made its own official statement, separate from Erik Mona’s.

“Norade” wrote:
Mona needs to realize that he can't engage on things like that without fans of the company reading it as an official statement.

No, fans need to learn that reading a blog comment by Erik Mona or a tweet by Jason Bulmahn is an individual response and not the official stance of the company at large.

“Norade” wrote:
I'm hardly the only person to have that reading, so at best it was ambiguous.

I’m hardly the only person to have the opposite reading


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dirtypool wrote:
Norade wrote:
I hard disagree. When an executive makes that kind of statement it is the companies word.
Except that the company made its own official statement, separate from Erik Mona’s.

After his statement. His was still first and created confusion.

Quote:
No, fans need to learn that reading a blog comment by Erik Mona or a tweet by Jason Bulmahn is an individual response and not the official stance of the company at large.

That's not how it works anymore and it hasn't worked that way for years. When Elon can raise the price of Doge coin with a tweet and lose billions for smoking with Joe Rogan other executives should look at everything they say publically as if it had those kinds of impacts.

Quote:
I’m hardly the only person to have the opposite reading

How does that disprove that it was a poorly worded ambiguous statement?

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