An inquiry into the viability of a new flavor: Pathfinder Dark


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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I understand the writers not wanting to write about dark subjects and I'm ok with that. I just change out anything in any AP I want to make darker or grittier or just different and that's that.

When Paizo starting being more aware and woke I was taken aback by it at first then I came to the conclusion that if it appeals to more people and makes more people feel included that is nothing but a good thing.


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ograx wrote:

I understand the writers not wanting to write about dark subjects and I'm ok with that. I just change out anything in any AP I want to make darker or grittier or just different and that's that.

When Paizo starting being more aware and woke I was taken aback by it at first then I came to the conclusion that if it appeals to more people and makes more people feel included that is nothing but a good thing.

Similar to my view. If they had originally not done dark subjects, no one would have noticed. Who knows what not doing dark subjects even means within the context of PF/D&D. It's a fantasy world structured around the combat. In any real world context, the base game is a dark subject in that it involves a near constant state of violent conflict.

These games have been in production for going on five decades. You can find whatever you want to do within the spectrum at this point. It's pretty much all been done in one form or another.

Paizo's changes made me shrug. Unless I see them doing APs and rulebooks where we're all playing My Little Pony scenarios, then there isn't really a concern.

Most of the original D&D adventures were pretty straightforward monster fights against giants and dragons. There wasn't much "dark" material. It was pretty much, "Here's this bunch of caves filled with monster or this group of giants or this ancient temple, go there and fight things to treasure and adventure."

Paizo was one of the first companies doing something like Rise of the Runelords with deeper motivations for the actions of the monsters and a larger, deeper metaplot with lots of dark, evil, and disturbing subjects.

Mainstream D&D adventures were pretty tame and PG or maybe PG13, while Paizo was rated R adventures for a more adult crowd.


Deriven Firelion wrote:


These games have been in production for going on five decades.

Well going on 50 years but already 5 decades or more depending on your point of view

70's = 1
80's = 2
90's = 3
00's = 4
10's = 5
20's = 6

Silver Crusade

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“Unless I see them doing APs and rulebooks where we're all playing My Little Pony scenarios, then there isn't really a concern.”

And they’re not since Ponyfinder is already a thing.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
Unless I see them doing APs and rulebooks where we're all playing My Little Pony scenarios, then there isn't really a concern.

They will if we pressure them enough. Give it time and demand, and eventually Paizo will either make a better Ponyfinder than what exists, or they'll buy the rights, take ownership, and change their publishing course to turn more profits.

By that point, I think I will have lost all faith in TTRPGs and finally side with all the jocks who made fun of and picked on us in those days past, because when we reach the stage I just described, they will have finally won the age-old argument.

Silver Crusade

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So you're gonna roll an Earth Pony?


Rysky wrote:
So you're gonna roll an Earth Pony?

I would sooner convert to 5E, even though it seems stupid simple and doesn't have much in the way of customization or engagement other than household brand recognition. But considering the wave of changes happening, it wouldn't be long before I quit 5E and just retire from TTRPGs entirely, since it seems doubtful that other systems can be developed and be engaging on a level that I can appreciate.

Silver Crusade

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They have a Ponyfinder conversion for 5E ^w^


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Rysky wrote:
They have a Ponyfinder conversion for 5E ^w^

But wait, there's MORE!!!!!

Silver Crusade

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Ooooo


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Unless I see them doing APs and rulebooks where we're all playing My Little Pony scenarios, then there isn't really a concern.

They will if we pressure them enough. Give it time and demand, and eventually Paizo will either make a better Ponyfinder than what exists, or they'll buy the rights, take ownership, and change their publishing course to turn more profits.

By that point, I think I will have lost all faith in TTRPGs and finally side with all the jocks who made fun of and picked on us in those days past, because when we reach the stage I just described, they will have finally won the age-old argument.

Is this...a joke? Some sort of sad projection or bluster? A serious hypothetical? I can’t make heads or tails of this post.


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If I wanted to do "Pathfinder- Ultra Silly" I think the better place to do that would be in a game I ran with like-minded individuals to see how that works out before any other decisions are made.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:
He's asking for the opportunity to stab rapists and slavers in the face, because he and his playgroup find the experience of stabbing rapists and slavers in the face to be cathartic.

Well no, he’s asking for the company that just took it on the chin for the current state of slavery in their game to double down and make adventures exclusively built around slavery and to up the ante in the process and include rapists because somehow fighting slavers and rapists is more cathartic than fighting Owlbears and Bugbears.

Let’s not let all the context of the ask drip out.

Silver Crusade

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Wow, everything you said is wrong.

And no, Pathfinder has absolutely no basis on the state of therapy and medical care for those suffering from mental illnesses.

If these forums are exacerbating your issues I'd take a breather from it, at the very least look into ways that can help you.


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I do miss some of the Hook Mountain flavour, and some of the horror vibe we had going on around Season 4 & 5 of PFS.

I wouldn't like it in every adventure, but as a bit of occasional spice it was lovely.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Cancel culture doesn't exist, or Louis CK wouldn't have a brand new comedy special and Mel Gibson wouldn't be in the new John Wick.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Pathfinder has plenty of recent "dark" content, and no indications they want to veer away from the vast majority of it. Take a look at the big-bad/main encounter zone in the first adventure of Agents of Edgewatch. The implied and explicit behaviors of the catfolk circus master in Extinction Curse. The addition of "content warnings" at the front of their publications, and the scenes those warn about. Flip through Bestiary 3 and read some of the critters they've created.

Paizo isn't taking away everything "dark" and "edgy"; they're just declining to focus on specific examples that unreasonably target/harm real-world marginalized groups. And the writers/developers generally recognize the difference between "edgy" content that is cool and tells a valuable story, and "edgy" content that exists simply for shock value; they're sticking with the former but reducing the latter. I personally think that's a good direction to be moving.

So from what they've published in 2e, serial killers = fine. Torturers = fine if handled properly (see velstracs). Gray areas where the PCs don't have any fully-"good" choices = fine-with-sidebar (to advise groups that want an alternative). Bad guys who are implied to do virtually any sort of terrible things off-screen = fine. I have no idea what we'll see in the upcoming Blood Lords AP, but I expect it'll have some significant darkness.

Some posters have been trying to push slippery-slope arguments that if you take away on-screen slavery, that means you have to take away (endless list of things that are in no way comparable). Please don't buy those arguments.


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Cori Marie wrote:
Cancel culture doesn't exist, or Louis CK wouldn't have a brand new comedy special and Mel Gibson wouldn't be in the new John Wick.

I prefer to call cancel culture "the free will of the market".

Just that it's telling you your stuff sucks.


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dirtypool wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
He's asking for the opportunity to stab rapists and slavers in the face, because he and his playgroup find the experience of stabbing rapists and slavers in the face to be cathartic.

Well no, he’s asking for the company that just took it on the chin for the current state of slavery in their game to double down and make adventures exclusively built around slavery and to up the ante in the process and include rapists because somehow fighting slavers and rapists is more cathartic than fighting Owlbears and Bugbears.

Let’s not let all the context of the ask drip out.

Pretty sure rapists never came up in any of my posts. No 'somehow' about it, there just aren't enough owlbear-related injustices currently plaguing the Earth to drive home my general inability to address them in real life.


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Cintra Bristol wrote:

Pathfinder has plenty of recent "dark" content, and no indications they want to veer away from the vast majority of it. Take a look at the big-bad/main encounter zone in the first adventure of Agents of Edgewatch. Bad guys who are implied to do virtually any sort of terrible things off-screen = fine. I have no idea what we'll see in the upcoming Blood Lords AP, but I expect it'll have some significant darkness.

Given the outcry that accompanied Agents of Edgewatch, I'm not sure how much of anything from that AP that we'll be seeing again. The Blood Lords AP is encouraging, I'll admit.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't think there is need to assume everyone preferring darker material is acting in bad faith (despite my bad experiences with warhammer fans ;P Some people can just like dark stuff without ulterior motive), but I definitely would prefer to see break from this subject for few months at least before it returns x'D


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Wonky Chewbacca wrote:
Cintra Bristol wrote:

Pathfinder has plenty of recent "dark" content, and no indications they want to veer away from the vast majority of it. Take a look at the big-bad/main encounter zone in the first adventure of Agents of Edgewatch. Bad guys who are implied to do virtually any sort of terrible things off-screen = fine. I have no idea what we'll see in the upcoming Blood Lords AP, but I expect it'll have some significant darkness.

Given the outcry that accompanied Agents of Edgewatch, I'm not sure how much of anything from that AP that we'll be seeing again. The Blood Lords AP is encouraging, I'll admit.

The outcry over AoE was almost entirely over the issues with playing fantasy cops, not the edgy content they had to deal with.


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CorvusMask wrote:
I don't think there is need to assume everyone preferring darker material is acting in bad faith (despite my bad experiences with warhammer fans ;P Some people can just like dark stuff without ulterior motive), but I definitely would prefer to see break from this subject for few months at least before it returns x'D

That's fair, it's been a fraught few months. I've only kept my fool mouth shut this long through teeth-and-fingernails willpower.

I've said my piece, let the devs make of it what they will, and gained some options and suggestions in the process. Call it a win.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

1. Challenging the inclusion of fighting racists with me and not with the person who inserted it into your statement prior is curious.

2. If you need to face current real world injustices for your group to feel catharsis, would it not be better to play one of the many alternate history games where fighting against real like monstrous injustice is the point of the game?


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dirtypool wrote:

1. Challenging the inclusion of fighting racists with me and not with the person who inserted it into your statement prior is curious.

2. If you need to face current real world injustices for your group to feel catharsis, would it not be better to play one of the many alternate history games where fighting against real like monstrous injustice is the point of the game?

1. Yours is the first response that felt like a personal attack, so yours is the first I've felt the need to defend myself against.

2. I've looked at a fair number of game systems, and I've never seen anybody who does it better that Paizo. White Wolf doesn't give a damn about things like encounter balance, Chaosium has this guanopsychotic d100 system that looks like it never evolved past the 80s, Exalted is either 300 pages of errata or... whatever they were trying with 3rd edition.


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CorvusMask wrote:
I don't think there is need to assume everyone preferring darker material is acting in bad faith (despite my bad experiences with warhammer fans ;P Some people can just like dark stuff without ulterior motive), but I definitely would prefer to see break from this subject for few months at least before it returns x'D

We're not all bad (Warhammer fans), I can confirm for me at least that I'm a bit of a man child, though. I'm in it for the heavy metal grimdark edge (big swords and guns, cool armor, planet sized explosions). Just watch out for GW and the fans that lose grip on the fact that the imperium are not in fact heroes but are supposed to be painted just as bad as the other factions (excluding demons and drukari). This goes for 40k at least: "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." Those who gloss over the fascist, xenophobic nature of the empire and it's negative consequences while glorifying the militarum and the astartes are the fans not to be trusted. I think space marines are pretty bad ass (visually). I also think the imperium and it's institutions make it an awful, awful place to live and I'd much rather be an elf on a craftworld (despite eldar being even more insufferable than Tolken elves). Back on topic, when I want my edgy, miserable fix I can interact with properties that cater to that specifically, like 40k. I don't need that niche experience to be in focus on my fantasy rpg game for everyone.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Wonky Chewbacca wrote:
1. Yours is the first response that felt like a personal attack, so yours is the first I've felt the need to defend myself against.

I’m sorry it felt that way, but no my response to SanityFaerie was not a personal attack against you.

“Wonky Chewbacca” wrote:
2. I've looked at a fair number of game systems, and I've never seen anybody who does it better that Paizo. White Wolf doesn't give a damn about things like encounter balance, Chaosium has this guanopsychotic d100 system that looks like it never evolved past the 80s, Exalted is either 300 pages of errata or... whatever they were trying with 3rd edition.

None of those games are particularly good at providing the kind of cathartic response to real world injustice you were advocating for as a play style.


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It's worth noting that "for mature audiences only" products are not exactly new in the TTRPG space, and past instances of this idea have not really moved the needle. It feels like Paizo's time and effort would be better spent on basically anything else.

It's not like if a writer really wants to tell a story that gets dark, they straight up can't, it's just that some things are not on the menu and it takes additional care to work them into a story.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Wow, everything you said is wrong.

And no, Pathfinder has absolutely no basis on the state of therapy and medical care for those suffering from mental illnesses.

If these forums are exacerbating your issues I'd take a breather from it, at the very least look into ways that can help you.

Pot, meet kettle. Saying my opinion is "wrong" is no different than any other claim of badwrongfun on these boards. A more accurate statement would be "I disagree with your opinion entirely." In which case, thanks for the reminder, Captain Obvious.

Many people who suffer from mental illness play these games, and do use these games as a means of influencing their morals, whether it be from the experiences they share with others, or the lessons being taught by the story, such as "Slavery is bad." Suggesting that third party media has no basis for causing influence among those with mental illnesses is both relatively ignorant and also still heavily debated to this day amongst those who study the field.

But nonetheless what Pathfinder publishes has no effect on what actual mental health professionals do.

Some players may attempt to work on some of their problems with RPGs, but that's not the purpose of RPGs and it's certainly not Paizo's responsibility to design their game for that purpose. It is not a therapeutic tool. They make no claim it is. It isn't designed or intended to be.
If someone can make use of it that way, that's great, but it's not something Paizo should consider. They're not at all qualified to do so.


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Wonky Chewbacca wrote:
keftiu wrote:
I don’t want this, the devs don’t want to write this, and it wouldn’t be usable in Society play. I really don’t think this is gonna happen. As others have said, this sort of thing is why Infinite exists.

Yes, it definitely wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but I thought there'd be no harm in asking.

Amusingly (to me), the absence of much support for the idea suggests to me... how to put this...?
We've had a lot of people complaining about judging older historical periods by modern moral standards, and decrying the sanitization of the setting for a variety of claimed reasons. Since the only reason I can think of to portray evil is to overcome that evil, maybe I've stripped some of the ambiguity from my view of their claims.
(No surprise to most, I'm sure. Apologies, my persistent tinnitus keeps me from hearing higher pitches.)

There's also a possibility that you'll encounter mostly single-minded responses here due to open focus on bringing one small yet loud group of tabletop fans and driving away all the others.

Even though I agree that ability to explore heavier themes in official adventures/materials would be nice, encouraging and not only appropriate, but right, I do not expect to see anything of the sorts due to Paizo's focus elsewhere.

Expressing collective expectations and/or needs will perhaps bear some fruit in the future, but this forums are not the best way to do it.

I hope my post will reach you before getting deleted.

Liberty's Edge

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Vasemir wrote:
Wonky Chewbacca wrote:
keftiu wrote:
I don’t want this, the devs don’t want to write this, and it wouldn’t be usable in Society play. I really don’t think this is gonna happen. As others have said, this sort of thing is why Infinite exists.

Yes, it definitely wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but I thought there'd be no harm in asking.

Amusingly (to me), the absence of much support for the idea suggests to me... how to put this...?
We've had a lot of people complaining about judging older historical periods by modern moral standards, and decrying the sanitization of the setting for a variety of claimed reasons. Since the only reason I can think of to portray evil is to overcome that evil, maybe I've stripped some of the ambiguity from my view of their claims.
(No surprise to most, I'm sure. Apologies, my persistent tinnitus keeps me from hearing higher pitches.)

There's also a possibility that you'll encounter mostly single-minded responses here due to open focus on bringing one small yet loud group of tabletop fans and driving away all the others.

Even though I agree that ability to explore heavier themes in official adventures/materials would be nice, encouraging and not only appropriate, but right, I do not expect to see anything of the sorts due to Paizo's focus elsewhere.

Expressing collective expectations and/or needs will perhaps bear some fruit in the future, but this forums are not the best way to do it.

I hope my post will reach you before getting deleted.

No need to fret. If your post is deleted, it will be for valid reasons and not on a whim. Paizo moderators take their responsibilities both very seriously and quite professionnaly.


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thejeff wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Wow, everything you said is wrong.

And no, Pathfinder has absolutely no basis on the state of therapy and medical care for those suffering from mental illnesses.

If these forums are exacerbating your issues I'd take a breather from it, at the very least look into ways that can help you.

Pot, meet kettle. Saying my opinion is "wrong" is no different than any other claim of badwrongfun on these boards. A more accurate statement would be "I disagree with your opinion entirely." In which case, thanks for the reminder, Captain Obvious.

Many people who suffer from mental illness play these games, and do use these games as a means of influencing their morals, whether it be from the experiences they share with others, or the lessons being taught by the story, such as "Slavery is bad." Suggesting that third party media has no basis for causing influence among those with mental illnesses is both relatively ignorant and also still heavily debated to this day amongst those who study the field.

But nonetheless what Pathfinder publishes has no effect on what actual mental health professionals do.

Some players may attempt to work on some of their problems with RPGs, but that's not the purpose of RPGs and it's certainly not Paizo's responsibility to design their game for that purpose. It is not a therapeutic tool. They make no claim it is. It isn't designed or intended to be.
If someone can make use of it that way, that's great, but it's not something Paizo should consider. They're not at all qualified to do so.

Let me get this straight...

They are willing to remove content (based on the initial post) that triggers people. Some people find that good, others find it bad. But the idea that they keep content that some find therapeutic is some how bad according you?

Why do people getting triggered over something they can ignore have more say than people who bought this setting for what it already was? Why do they have more say than people who find it healing to face evil and destroy it? That whole mentality is just weird to me.

********************
Before someone responds, "oh Paizo staff are saying they don't want to do it". That is 100% besides the point I am making. They were doing their work and people where buying the books regardless.

My comment is about people in the forum talking as if their opinion have more worth than the rest. Which they don't, as all opinions are equal, and that opinions.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

What thejeff said is that therapy is not the stated purpose of the game. If you get therapeutic use of it, that's wonderful. But expecting others to have to deal with things that trigger them so that you can have a therapy aid is not fair either.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
I don't think there is need to assume everyone preferring darker material is acting in bad faith (despite my bad experiences with warhammer fans ;P Some people can just like dark stuff without ulterior motive), but I definitely would prefer to see break from this subject for few months at least before it returns x'D
We're not all bad (Warhammer fans), I can confirm for me at least that I'm a bit of a man child, though. I'm in it for the heavy metal grimdark edge (big swords and guns, cool armor, planet sized explosions). Just watch out for GW and the fans that lose grip on the fact that the imperium are not in fact heroes but are supposed to be painted just as bad as the other factions (excluding demons and drukari). This goes for 40k at least: "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." Those who gloss over the fascist, xenophobic nature of the empire and it's negative consequences while glorifying the militarum and the astartes are the fans not to be trusted. I think space marines are pretty bad ass (visually). I also think the imperium and it's institutions make it an awful, awful place to live and I'd much rather be an elf on a craftworld (despite eldar being even more insufferable than Tolken elves). Back on topic, when I want my edgy, miserable fix I can interact with properties that cater to that specifically, like 40k. I don't need that niche experience to be in focus on my fantasy rpg game for everyone.

Hi, I'm a Warhammer 40K person as well, specifically Chaos (Thousand Sons) specializing.

I too do not need more 40K in my Pathfinder.


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Cyouni wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
I don't think there is need to assume everyone preferring darker material is acting in bad faith (despite my bad experiences with warhammer fans ;P Some people can just like dark stuff without ulterior motive), but I definitely would prefer to see break from this subject for few months at least before it returns x'D
We're not all bad (Warhammer fans), I can confirm for me at least that I'm a bit of a man child, though. I'm in it for the heavy metal grimdark edge (big swords and guns, cool armor, planet sized explosions). Just watch out for GW and the fans that lose grip on the fact that the imperium are not in fact heroes but are supposed to be painted just as bad as the other factions (excluding demons and drukari). This goes for 40k at least: "To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." Those who gloss over the fascist, xenophobic nature of the empire and it's negative consequences while glorifying the militarum and the astartes are the fans not to be trusted. I think space marines are pretty bad ass (visually). I also think the imperium and it's institutions make it an awful, awful place to live and I'd much rather be an elf on a craftworld (despite eldar being even more insufferable than Tolken elves). Back on topic, when I want my edgy, miserable fix I can interact with properties that cater to that specifically, like 40k. I don't need that niche experience to be in focus on my fantasy rpg game for everyone.

Hi, I'm a Warhammer 40K person as well, specifically Chaos (Thousand Sons) specializing.

I too do not...

Tyranid player myself. THERE'S DOZENS OF US!! Can't wait to play Space Marine 2.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Content has NOT been removed.

It's just not being given a spotlight on the center stage.

Yet this seems to be some 'horrible' thing.

Think of the worst thing that happened to anyone in one's family.

Go back, the very WORST thing.

Now imagine that there are an untold number of people who are using that WORST thing as a fetish for their entertainment, and trying to claim that it's the BEST thing.

If the visceral response is "Well, it's no big deal" then the lack of respect and dignity that one has for one's ancestors is jarring.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Temperans wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:
What thejeff said is that therapy is not the stated purpose of the game. If you get therapeutic use of it, that's wonderful. But expecting others to have to deal with things that trigger them so that you can have a therapy aid is not fair either.

The world of Golarion from it's very first page has been dark full of bad stuff everywhere.

Why should this setting now stop, and catter to those who are triggered by it and not those who find it therapeutic? Why is someone getting triggered heard more than someone who getting help? It's certainly is not fair to remove the content that helps people no?

Honestly, as I said before this whole thing just seems like more reason why Paizo should had added some apocalypse event or huge timeskip between PF1 and PF2.

Then people would have had no complaints as its effectively a brand new setting. Much like Starfinder.

Here, have an explanation from one of the developers as to why they decided on this route.

Cori Marie wrote:

Apropos of nothing, here is what Luis Loza posted in another thread very similar to this one:

Luis Loza wrote:

As this matter has come up multiple times, I just want to pop in here and let everyone know our stance at the moment, since it seems there's some confusion on how this is exactly being handled.

Slavery will no longer be the focus of our stories, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly been retroactively removed from the setting as if it never existed. Places like Vidrian and Absalom are still defined by their relationship with slavery, even if the practice has been fully ended. We might still bring it up from time to time, such as when noting historic events and the like.

If you want to continue playing heroes that defeat slavers and liberate people, please go ahead. If you want to tell stories that include it to showcase the evil and cruelty of villains, please go ahead. What you should not expect is for us to tell those stories going forward. We won't be doing adventures like Broken Chains and others that keep slavery in the spotlight, even as an institution to dismantle. We understand that this matter, like many other sensitive matters, are not ones that players want to necessarily interface with without having bought in or agreed to it first. Rather than force someone to opt out of these stories, we prefer taking the option of allowing groups to actively choose to include them in their games.

What does this mean for the Firebrands, Bellflower Network, Gray Corsairs, and others? At the moment, nothing. They can still do good and help people in ways that don't require fighting slavers. They might need to help liberated people get established in life. They could work to fight other forms of tyranny. They could go around rescuing the victims of kidnapping. We won't be having them deal with slavery directly going forward, however, and we'll make sure to expand or realign the focus of such groups when we get the chance


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Temperans wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:
What thejeff said is that therapy is not the stated purpose of the game. If you get therapeutic use of it, that's wonderful. But expecting others to have to deal with things that trigger them so that you can have a therapy aid is not fair either.

The world of Golarion from it's very first page has been dark full of bad stuff everywhere.

Why should this setting now stop, and catter to those who are triggered by it and not those who find it therapeutic? Why is someone getting triggered heard more than someone who getting help? It's certainly is not fair to remove the content that helps people no?

Honestly, as I said before this whole thing just seems like more reason why Paizo should had added some apocalypse event or huge timeskip between PF1 and PF2.

Then people would have had no complaints as its effectively a brand new setting. Much like Starfinder.

I'm assuming they wanted to keep fairly similar to their original setting (barring some exceptions for a more inclusive game). The implication here seems to be they aren't allowed to unless they keep an emphasis on the less than savory topics some want.

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