Spiderman: No way home thread 2.0


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It happens A-zombie.


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CapeCodRPGer wrote:

What they did here makes me not want to invest in ANY more movies, books, comics or TV shows.

What's the point of watching characters grow and change if they will just take away all that development in the blink of an eye?

"We hope you enjoyed watching these characters learn and grow. Just kidding, we are taking all that away."

Thanks Marvel.

You mean... like the One More Day comic... where MJ and Peter traded away their love to a devil to bring Aunt May back... so they can handwave away decades of Peter Parker's character growth from an awkward intellectual teen to a realized adult with a healthy marriage?... Just so he could go back to living with his ancient aunt who still looks like she's going to fall over dead next week and rehash all the old tropes?...

Sorry. First thing that came to mind.


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I liked the movie.

As one review put it, the movie is a celebration of Sony's Spider-men. I always liked McGuire's Peter Parker, but he felt a little awkward as Spider Man. I liked Garfield's portrayal of Spider Man, but he felt a little too cool to be Peter Parker. Holland had the right balance... but something felt missing, and after this movie, I realize it's the drive that Peter Parker has.

This movie pulls it all together. It gives the Holland Peter a personal stake in being a hero, rather than being something he does because he can. Now he does it because He Must. It's a moral imperative.

The movie is nostalgia baiting, but done well enough. They told a story that stays relatively true to the characters without talking down to the audience like a lot of other movies do, trying to make you feel bad for liking something that you like or used to like.

It's not perfect. You can pick apart issues with the narrative structure or point out plot holes, because comic movies and tv shows are going to have them... they're unrealistic by their very nature, but I walked in expecting a Spider Man movie, I got the feels watching it more than I expected, and walked away happy that I'd seen it. So for me, I felt that I got something that's been in sore demand for a while, a movie made to entertain me by people who also enjoyed the thing that I came to see...

So... scratch that. I don't like this movie, I love this movie, even though it's not perfect... but maybe it was perfect for me.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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I finally had a chance to see the movie and enjoyed it. Definitely thinking through the implications of everyone forgetting Peter Parker. It's clear Spidey is still remembered, so my take is that events happened pretty much as we saw them in previous movies, with the exception of knowing who was under the mask. I'm thinking that Spiderman still did the things he did, worked with the people he did, they just didn't know who he really was. The hardest to explain is Ned - since without him knowing Peter and finding out, why would Spiderman have recruited him to help, and why would Peter have even been in Europe without the school trip. I'm guessing that some of this will get explained in the next movie though. Marvel is very good at planting seeds for things to be explained or become major plot points even in the future, and then following through on them.

I definitely sense what with J Jonah Jameson and the Dailey Bugle involved, setting up Spiderman as a menace, that Kraven is a likely future villain, with plenty of reason to want to get Spidey.


I would love to see Kraven in the future MCU. Him and maybe Roderick Kingsley maybe.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

The more I've thought about the ending, the more questions I have. did the spell simply erase all records and memories of Peter, but not change events, or did it alter reality enough that no one ever knew Peter was Spidey? If it's just memories, then it's a lot easier to bridge, since all the events of the movies happened exactly as shown, no retcons needed. It also makes it easier for Peter to re-introduce himself to people since close contacts would eventually realize there's missing memories that would account for their actions. I'm going with that for now as my head-canon.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, it made people forget Peter, not Spiderman. I'm curious how that effects his legal status, if his birth records and the like still exist. It seems like he was cut off completely from receiving anything May left behind, but I don't know if she just didn't have a will made up.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Yeah, it made people forget Peter, not Spiderman. I'm curious how that effects his legal status, if his birth records and the like still exist. It seems like he was cut off completely from receiving anything May left behind, but I don't know if she just didn't have a will made up.

The question is more about in the past did they know Peter? The plot of Far From Home breaks without Peter on the school trip, Fury knowing who he is to recruit him, Mysterio knowing who he is to trick him, etc.

And the fact that he's not in school suggests his records aren't there....as well as the Mysterio video revealing his identity, etc.

but he did get some stuff from Aunt May's and/or Happy's condo, with the boxes and Palpatine lego.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

Well, they did graduate as far as I know. If the school records are there, he'd still be able to finish out otherwise, despite his teachers all having amnesia about who he is. Much like Endgame, the spell erasing memories can't break the plot of past events, because they already happened.


I'm not going to worry about questions I have no answer to until someone does the next Spider-man movie...


PG-13 #4 Domestic and #7 International.
$1,631,853,496 and counting....


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Okay, I’ll bite: what do The Kings Man(#4 D), My Hero Academia: World Heroes’ Mission (#7 I)and the total gross of Spider-Man have to do with each other?

Or alternatively Black Widow (4) and Venom (7) if you’re using 2021 rankings


don't do it dirtypool.

Also tomorrow I will go see this so expect my review.


So yeah I got to see this and not only was it as good as advertised, I truly enjoyed every second of it...even if my Mom had no idea (entirely) what she was seeing. (She did chuckle some so there's that)

Best part was the entire rapport with Tom Holland, Tobey McGuire and Andrew Garfield just having their brother moments along with comparing their own experiences. That plus this was ALMOST the Sinister Six everyone was clamoring for. DeFoe truly brought back the chills as Osborn. That plus the pathos of the villains themselves was more than I think many expected.

Still unclear just what it all means down the road for MCU Peter, but maybe when Sony does more into the Spiderverse, we might see these guys again.


Precisely! What's not to like?
As my fav reviewer points out, if only it gets an opening in China it'll break the $2 billion mark. And I'll gloatingly note that her rankings match my plumb perspicacious prognostication from last week.
:D


I don't recall that prediction, QB, but I'm not going to fight you over it since it's clear NWH is breaking enough records that the collaboration between Marvel Studios and Sony might continue onward.


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"We made money?!?!? We're doing that again!"

First rule of business in Hollyweird.
:D


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Quark Blast wrote:

And I'll gloatingly note that her rankings match my plumb perspicacious prognostication from last week.

:D

Oh? I fear after all the track record of your fatally flawed fortune telling that you’ve jinxed Spidey from crossing that line. Then again this is the one time you backed a horse that was already winning.

“Quark Blast” wrote:
I think the $80 million in hype for Spidey might just push it into the Top 5
“Quark Blast” wrote:
Right now SC is the highest grossing movie of the year with very high marks even for a MCU movie. It may get eclipsed by the final Daniel Craig Bond movie and is virtually certain to by the Dune movie
“Quark Blast” wrote:
Venom and No Time to Die will come in behind Villeneuve's Dune.
“Quark Blast” wrote:
And when those numbers include box office returns for the US, let alone China, it'll be stomping everything on the market
“Quark Blast” wrote:
It's not going to take much of a bump to push Dune to #1.
“Quark Blast” wrote:
Dune will be playing in China and will therefore bank more box office than any other movie this year except for F9


All I care about is they might bring back Andrew Garfield as Spidey again along with Tobey in some fashion. Maybe a kind of Into the Spiderverse thingie.


I didn't know where it was appropriate, but I'm going to throw this here: I don't like how much movie Spider Men take off their masks. I'm guessing this is a live acting thing, to fulfill a contract requirement or provide a visual for the audience on displaying the actor's emotional range, but honestly in the comics Spider Man would go so far as to put a paper bag on his head rather than reveal his secret ID to even close Marvel Team Up buddies (prior to Civil War), but in the movies its "oh no, this train is gonna crash and stopping it will be hard, better get my mask off for this!"

I hope now that SM: NWH has reestablished Peter's secret ID he'll keep his mask on like, all the time unless absolutely life-threatening situations demand it being removed.


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

I didn't know where it was appropriate, but I'm going to throw this here: I don't like how much movie Spider Men take off their masks. I'm guessing this is a live acting thing, to fulfill a contract requirement or provide a visual for the audience on displaying the actor's emotional range, but honestly in the comics Spider Man would go so far as to put a paper bag on his head rather than reveal his secret ID to even close Marvel Team Up buddies (prior to Civil War), but in the movies its "oh no, this train is gonna crash and stopping it will be hard, better get my mask off for this!"

I hope now that SM: NWH has reestablished Peter's secret ID he'll keep his mask on like, all the time unless absolutely life-threatening situations demand it being removed.

It's common with all the super hero movies (at least for characters with any kind of nearly full face masks) and it always bugs me. Worse with Spider-man since he's even more focused on his secret identity being secret than most, but it always seems weird.

How many times does Iron Man open his helmet just to talk for a moment?

I get that it's done to let the actor act, but it's always weird.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

I've never noticed it in a situation where it really bothered me. We already had the precedent of nanotech moving to cover the most important areas and leaving some areas uncovered. (Admittedly, the Doc Oc fight did not do near enough damage to really justify that but I'm fine with the story beat taking precedence.)

I'd have to go back to the train scene to see if my memory fails me, but Tony really only seemed to open the helmet in safe situations. (Diplomacy with Thor, Cap, etc. Rhodey did it once at the party and I don't recall many others.)


Yeah I don't agree with Mark or jeff on this. The fact is I think all the Spider-men acted appropriately with their mask off policy. I mean look at the actual Into the Spider-verse. There were more than few of Spider people that kept their masks off. (Well sort of...)


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Huh, I always thought it was merely a trope that super heroes with secret identities can't keep them secret when the plot requires. Which is virtually in every story. OTOH Mark might be onto something with the contractual angle.

I always think of the MCU/DCU movies like live-action cartoons and just go with it.


Still dominating the box office and is getting close to doubling the gross of the #2 movie from 2021. The movie is good but not that good. I can only explain it from the dearth of quality MCU releases prior.


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It’s already quadrupled the gross of the # 11 movie from 2021z


Not sure I'd say dearth of quality with at least Shang-Chi doing more than reasonable well, but I do think it's extraordinary this movie continues to hold on to the #1 even in 2022.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Clawed it’s way back after getting knocked to number 2 by Scream


Right forgot about that. But even so...


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

I didn't know where it was appropriate, but I'm going to throw this here: I don't like how much movie Spider Men take off their masks. I'm guessing this is a live acting thing, to fulfill a contract requirement or provide a visual for the audience on displaying the actor's emotional range, but honestly in the comics Spider Man would go so far as to put a paper bag on his head rather than reveal his secret ID to even close Marvel Team Up buddies (prior to Civil War), but in the movies its "oh no, this train is gonna crash and stopping it will be hard, better get my mask off for this!"

I hope now that SM: NWH has reestablished Peter's secret ID he'll keep his mask on like, all the time unless absolutely life-threatening situations demand it being removed.

You make a fair point, but I've been thinking...

From a story perspective in No Way Home, the two spidermen from alternate realities know that they aren't really running into anybody they know, and Holland Peter is counting on Strange to cast the spell afterwards.

It's not a perfect explanation, but it is something that occurred to me from an in-character view of their actions.

But yeah... in general, it doesn't seem like most of the MCU characters are worried about a secret identity... like at all. Barton, at least, should wear a mask. He might be good at what he does, but he's got a really squishy family, no super powers to speak of, and no where near the resources of any of the other characters.

Scarab Sages

I didn’t want to sully the message boards by giving the news it’s own thread, but apparently…..

Sony is not done inflicting their own Spider-Man IP on a hapless universe.

They need a clever name for their efforts - like Sony Universe Cinema Killer.

Liberty's Edge

Aberzombie wrote:

I didn’t want to sully the message boards by giving the news it’s own thread, but apparently…..

Sony is not done inflicting their own Spider-Man IP on a hapless universe.

They need a clever name for their efforts - like Sony Universe Cinema Killer.

Man I wish Sony would give / sell the Spider Man rights back to Marvel for good …


I mean it might suck...but I'm a fan of Madame Web...so who knows?

Liberty's Edge

The problem is Sony doesn’t want the rights to revert back to Marvel, so they will just keep cranking out Spider Man movies, no matter what, just so they can honor the contract.

It would be so much better to just let Marvel have Spider Man back.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

No financial incentive for them to sell it back. :(


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The Mulitverse might be a boon to the MCU. We can have a Tom Holland Spidey in the MCU, with other Spidermen (or even an alternate Tom) showing up in Sony movies that might not be in the MCU (Venom, Morbius, etc.)

I could enjoy a movie where Madame Web assembles some Spidermen/women for hijinks.


Still plugging along but it looks unlikely to regain the #1 spot.

Will it have legs to move up another notch? Domestically, it's possible.

Internationally, only if China starts to play nice with foreign films, so very unlikely.


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Scream was only #1 domestically for its first week of release before it dropped back to #2 and Spidey regained the top spot. That was two weeks ago, so it is not “possible,” it happened.

Since you get all of your info from Box Office Mojo, you knew that already.


Disney consumes all, right? So, Sony and Disney keep collaborating on multiverse MCU/Spider Man stuff, eventually the Mouse gets tired of sharing the sandbox... how long before Sony's movie section is another tentacle of the otherworldly horror that is Disney?


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
Disney consumes all, right? So, Sony and Disney keep collaborating on multiverse MCU/Spider Man stuff, eventually the Mouse gets tired of sharing the sandbox... how long before Sony's movie section is another tentacle of the otherworldly horror that is Disney?

I think Disney has actually acquired fewer companies than Sony/Columbia/Tri-Star/Screen Gems/Imageworks/Triumph/Embassy/ 3/5ths of the United Artist back catalog and 1/2 of the MGM back catalog

Liberty's Edge

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If by that, you mean … how long before Disney/Marvel throws enough money at Sony to make them sell back the rights to Spider Man once and for all … hopefully soon!


Dreams are messages from the Deep

Even so, rise mighty Cthulu!

Grrk! Aaa! Glllk... uhhh...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

They can't throw enough money to make up the loss of continuing merch checks.


I'm not sure that's true, Tri. Also not sure what QB is doing...but regardless, I don't foresee complications mostly because they both want money. Also as a recent Film Theorist video asserts, movies need Marvel because more and more people don't want to go to movie theaters any more.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber

Which video?


Tri,

The most recent one. I don't have the link on me.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

What they did here makes me not want to invest in ANY more movies, books, comics or TV shows.

What's the point of watching characters grow and change if they will just take away all that development in the blink of an eye?

"We hope you enjoyed watching these characters learn and grow. Just kidding, we are taking all that away."

Thanks Marvel.

Happens all the time in the comics. Retcons of retcons.. Sometimes it can wrap up fairly well like Immortal Hulk.


Yep. Immortal Hulk is certainly a great example.

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