Storm of blades spell + oversized weapons


Rules Questions


I was making a magus and i found this spell:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/storm-of-blades/

You must use some kind of sword as a material, then an amount of copies equal to half your level are propeled toward your enemies as ranged attacks, without penalties for using mele weapons as ranged or range increments.

My questions is, if you use a sword that is for a category larger than you as a material, the oversized penalties applies to the ranged attacks?

I think not because the spell throws them, tecnically your not even wielding it, but it sounds to pretty to be true. Five giants sword raining over your enemies sounds to cool af.


Table and GM thoughts may vary, but as far is I see the RAI, the swords would be sized for the caster, regardless of the size of the weapon used as material component. I say this because there is no language regarding size penalties, either due to smaller or larger. In the end however, up to the GM of the game you are in, but I personally as a GM would go with sized for your PC regardless of material component sword size. Of course, that is just me.


If you could use colossal swords as a material focus, this spell would be one of the best spells in the game. 5 swords x 4d6 damage = 20d6 dmg for a level 3 spell, not including any MM feats/rods or Magical Lineage/Wayang Spellhunter shenanigans. These are 5 ranged attack rolls too, not a Reflex save for half.

Hauling around a colossal sword isn't a problem for a caster either, because for 7,500gp you can simply use Permanency with Shrink Item Colossal Weapon ---> Medium Weapon ---> Colossal Weapon ---> Medium Weapon shenanigans for endless abuse.

Edit: on second thought, you can get more damage from Magic Trick Fireballs with Crossblooded and Blood Arcanist + Admixture Wizard X, so maybe it is fine.


GM_Beernorg wrote:
Table and GM thoughts may vary, but as far is I see the RAI, the swords would be sized for the caster, regardless of the size of the weapon used as material component. I say this because there is no language regarding size penalties, either due to smaller or larger. In the end however, up to the GM of the game you are in, but I personally as a GM would go with sized for your PC regardless of material component sword size. Of course, that is just me.

Since the sword used is a material and not a focus, it would be destroyed after the spell and it's not like im about to carry any number of colosal swords, but maybe as last trump card.

Now thinking again the spell it's not against the touch ac as almost every spell, but a regular ranged attack and ignores spell resistance what is the most i like.

So to be sure, if you can copy giant swords, the oversize penalty would not apply since you are not wilding them?


I see what you are saying.

I stated material component for the record, not spell focus item.

And just my interpretation, as noted, mine is not the final word or absolute answer by any means.


if only there was a magus archtype or something that let you pull swords out of thin air...

(the mindblade disappear when it leaves your hand. but as the weapon material for this spell is "annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process" so it is also gone anyway and probably even before leaving your hand)

@Ryze Kuja, side note, i think the spell is 2nd for arcane casters, 3rd for divine casters.


zza ni wrote:


@Ryze Kuja, side note, i think the spell is 2nd for arcane casters, 3rd for divine casters.

ya, it's 2nd for Magus, Wiz/Sorc, and 3rd for Clerics

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
each attack has the same threat range and critical modifier and deals the same damage as a standard sword of the type expended.

A standard sword of the type expended is a weapon sized for a small or medium creature as that is the standard description in the CRB e following products.

That is further supported by the spell damage caps in Ultimate magic, p. 130: 10 dices for a 2nd level arcane or 3rd level divine spell with a single target, the damage of 5 greatswords. While the need for multiple to hits against normal AC weakens the sell, the no SR, and no save enhance it. Plus the weapons will use their critical threat.
All things included it is on the weak side of second-level spells, but perfectly viable.

Not RAW, but probably I would allow using feats and abilities that affect weapons of that type with that spell (like weapon focus, specialization, and improved critical). That will give it a small boost in power if used by some class.

Another question is the material of the conjured weapons. If you use a weapon made of a special material, the conjured blades are made of that material?
As the weapons do the standard damage of a sword of that type I am inclined toward saying no, as the standard weapon of that type isn't made of special materials, but it is a decision that should be made at the different gaming tables, as the spell isn't clear enough about that.

While I think that RAI is "the material of the component has no effect on the martial of the conjured blades" at my table probably will make it matters. Again, a small power-up that will not make the spell overpowered.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Ryze Kuja wrote:
If you could use colossal swords as a material focus, this spell would be one of the best spells in the game. 5 swords x 4d6 damage = 20d6 dmg for a level 3 spell

Yeah, but that's an attack against regular AC. A bog-standard Scorching Ray deals 12d6 against touch AC.

Say at level 11 you have +10 to hit (+5 from BAB, +5 from dexterity). Average AC is 25, so you hit on a 15+, making your average damage 21. Average touch AC at that level is 11, so scorching ray hits on a 2+, making your average damage 40 points.

So yeah. You can tack on a lot of bonuses on Storm of Blades before it becomes better than Scorching Ray.


What about the opposite? If the spell is locked into doing medium size damage, then it’d be easier to carry a bunch of diminutive swords.

Liberty's Edge

Melkiador wrote:
What about the opposite? If the spell is locked into doing medium size damage, then it’d be easier to carry a bunch of diminutive swords.

The material component is "a sword". I would say that anything that fulfills that requirement will suffice. A toy sword wouldn't be enough, as it is a toy, but a diminutive, functional sword will.


A 1 lvl dip in gloomblade fighter should allow you to pull swords of any size you can carry (as the ability only requires that you be proficient with the weapon and doesn’t require you to actually wield it in order to create it) out of thin air and place it in your hand as a move action. You could then use said sword as the material component and cast the spell as your standard action. I think this checks out but maybe I’m wrong. Seems like a neat idea though.

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