Is the Harmona Gun a black powder weapon?


Rules Discussion


Nothing in the book says it isn't. But it's also explicitly stated to be an Arcadian weapon, and Arcadia doesn't have powder weapons generally.


It uses standard black powder ammunition, so I would say so.


It is almost certainly an air rifle. It is popular in Arcadia, meaning it cannot be a black powder weapon, as you said. It also lacks the fatal trait like the air repeaters. I'm 99% sure that they just forgot to clarify that.


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Karmagator wrote:
It is almost certainly an air rifle. It is popular in Arcadia, meaning it cannot be a black powder weapon, as you said. It also lacks the fatal trait like the air repeaters. I'm 99% sure that they just forgot to clarify that.

Not every gun that uses gunpowder has fatal: for instance, the hand cannon doesn't have it either.


graystone wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
It is almost certainly an air rifle. It is popular in Arcadia, meaning it cannot be a black powder weapon, as you said. It also lacks the fatal trait like the air repeaters. I'm 99% sure that they just forgot to clarify that.
Not every gun that uses gunpowder has fatal: for instance, the hand cannon doesn't have it either.

Yep, but all other black powder longarms that aren't shotguns have it. But that is only an indicator. It being a popular weapon in Arcadia is what basically guarantees it.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:
It being a popular weapon in Arcadia is what basically guarantees it.

I mean, the weapon outright says it uses regular firearm, aka black powder, ammunition.

The lore writeups also explicitly call out Air Guns as having short range and low stopping power and that as a result air guns have been losing popularity in Arcadia. The Harmona gun has the highest damage die and longest range of any firearm in the game, it very much does not fit that description.

Regarding black powder weapons in Arcadia, we're told that they're "a new development" not that they're unheard of. They're even explicitly becoming more popular in the Deadshot Lands. Skymetal guns, beast guns and air guns are more established, but the harmona clearly isn't any of those.

Plus, again, the book already tells us it uses black powder ammunition.


Squiggit wrote:
Karmagator wrote:
It being a popular weapon in Arcadia is what basically guarantees it.

I mean, the weapon outright says it uses regular firearm, aka black powder, ammunition.

The lore writeups also explicitly call out Air Guns as having short range and low stopping power and that as a result air guns have been losing popularity in Arcadia. The Harmona gun has the highest damage die and longest range of any firearm in the game, it very much does not fit that description.

Regarding black powder weapons in Arcadia, we're told that they're "a new development" not that they're unheard of. They're even explicitly becoming more popular in the Deadshot Lands. Skymetal guns, beast guns and air guns are more established, but the harmona clearly isn't any of those.

Plus, again, the book already tells us it uses black powder ammunition.

I think you forgot to mention that the book lists it as using black powder ammunition.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Jokey's right, the book does list it as using black powder ammunition.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

All this confusion would have been prevented by adding an Air Gun trait or something.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Cordell Kintner wrote:
All this confusion would have been prevented by adding an Air Gun trait or something.

Trait overload is actually a legit issue that affects things like copyfit in the book. That's not hypothetical, either; we had to put all the weapons with the combination trait into a table that said "all of these weapons have the combination trait" because "combination" didn't fit in the table without having to knock other traits off the combination weapons and make them really unattractive as character options. You can also attach an air firing system to any firearm, which makes a hard-locked trait less desirable on that front as well.

Keeping the game accessible means not overloading it with meaningless traits, so the more you can "and/but/if" the conditionals of when a trait might apply, the less likely it is for the trait to be helpful. That's especially true for weapons, which are already likely to have several traits regardless of the circumstances and have a very defined presentation space.

RE: the OP, as Squiggit noted quite succinctly, harmona guns are black powder weapons. They're newer to Arcadia and while they lack a lot of the refinements of Dongun Hold / Alkenstar-made weapons, they can throw a golfball-sized ball of lead at lethal speeds down the length of a couple football fields and an adjacent parking lot.


Michael Sayre wrote:

...

RE: the OP, as Squiggit noted quite succinctly, harmona guns are black powder weapons. They're newer to Arcadia and while they lack a lot of the refinements of Dongun Hold / Alkenstar-made weapons, they can throw a golfball-sized ball of lead at lethal speeds down the length of a couple football fields and an adjacent parking lot.

Uhm. Does this count as official errata???

720 feet (the length of just the two football fields, nevermind the adjacent carpark) is almost five times the listed range of 150 ft...

/end-pedantry


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

A weapon's maximum range is six range increments. You won't be very accurate, but you can shoot at people 900 feet away.


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Pixel Popper wrote:
720 feet (the length of just the two football fields, nevermind the adjacent carpark) is almost five times the listed range of 150 ft...

I don't recall them ever saying that Golarion football fields have the same dimensions as earth ones. That and it could be just the field of play: fun fact that football didn't have end zones until 1912 so the entire field was 300'. Additionally, the playing field in canadian football is 330', 10 yards longer than American football, Gaelic football fields are 130–145 meters, Australian football is 135–185 meters... ;)


Well, that solves that question then. Another one for the "overthinking it" pile :D

Thanks for the input, Michael ^^


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Squiggit wrote:
A weapon's maximum range is six range increments. You won't be very accurate, but you can shoot at people 900 feet away.

Oooh! Fantastic point! Thanks! I totally forgot for a moment that it was a range increment, not max range...

'is what I get for being cheeky =)


Squiggit wrote:
A weapon's maximum range is six range increments. You won't be very accurate, but you can shoot at people 900 feet away.

On the contrary, a high enough level Gunslinger can take Unerring Shot and have no penalties from range increment at all.

Go ahead and shoot away at that poor guy standing 900 feet downrange. Poor guy probably dies before even figuring out what's going on (doubly so if you've got ricochet shot too to hit him from behind...)

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