We're in a golden age of AP variety.

[keftiu]

2e struggled on the Adventure Path front out the gate: Age of Ashes was mechanically overtuned, Extinction Curse had a hard time marrying the circus theme to the wider plot, and Agents of Edgewatch's police theme was ill-advised... and so I see a certain segment of the fanbase say that 2e is weaker than its predecessor in this regard. While I think the complaints with these campaigns all bear merit, I really want to shout out everything since, including what's coming up.

Abomination Vaults is a classic megadungeon that still bucks tradition in places, and makes such a solid introduction to PF2 that it's seen record sales; it's there for people who want something that feels like the iconic image of d20 fantasy. Fists of the Ruby Phoenix is the first AP entirely set in Tian Xia, and deserves acclaim for being the first 11-20. Strength of Thousands is really impressive thus far as both a triumph of respectful African-inspired fantasy and for having the most support I've seen in an AP for nonviolent resolutions with so many foes - it's a balm to how fraught with how many old Mwangi narratives were about the PCs as violent outsiders, and ends up feeling really fresh.

2022 looks /so/ bright on this front, too! Quest for the Frozen Flame is featuring the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, who never got much love, while also featuring wilderness exploration as the main focus of play. Outlaws of Alkenstar gives us steampunk gunslingers in another corner of the setting 1e didn't have too much time for. Blood Lords is now a third Garund-set AP, and is going to allow for non-Good characters to really shine (to say nothing of the likely emphasis on undead PCs, also brand new)!

To folks who were scared off by what 2e started with - there's stuff of real worth here to look at! And to the devs: thank you for such consistently cool, varied offerings! I love how much of the world we're getting to see, and how many different play experiences are getting the spotlight.

[vagrant-poet]

I also feel like this edition is hitting its stride for adventures.

The Stand-Alones are also going col directions, with stuff like Night of the Grey Death making what used to be AP required stories happen, while Malevolence and the upcoming Korvosa module also seeming like really compelling stories.

[Ixal]

I still think 2E APs have a serious problems which also affects Starfinder. Paizo is, for whatever reason, using uncommon (for PF/SF) adventure hooks instead of the normal adventurers. Circus, City Watch, a tournament, space trucker, etc.
Not sure how well Strength of Thousands with its school background is working out, but in the other APs the hook quickly fades away and the APs play out like any generic PF game with dungeon crawling and looting.
Agent of Edgewatch being probably the AP with the biggest disconnect between the hook/scenario and how it played.

Either Paizo really has to lean into its uncommon scenarios and rewrite a big part of how adventures are supposed to play out for each AP or they have to go back to having generic adventurer APs as thats who the rules are written for.

[Kasoh]

Aside from Agents of Edgewatch, which I was disappointed by in the reading, none of the APs published or announced have been real winners for me and going into 2022 I see even less to be excited about. Granted we know so little about some of the upcoming paths that it could change, but I don't think so.

I'm running Abomination Vaults and its okay in a moment to moment experience, but as a whole adventure its...eh. A good place to start people on PF2 I think, but it has almost nothing of what I actually like in Adventure Paths. My own fault for running it, I suppose.

[AceofMoxen]

I am really excited for Blood lords getting into just how the nation of Geb works.

[The Raven Black]

Kasoh wrote:

Aside from Agents of Edgewatch, which I was disappointed by in the reading, none of the APs published or announced have been real winners for me and going into 2022 I see even less to be excited about. Granted we know so little about some of the upcoming paths that it could change, but I don't think so.

I'm running Abomination Vaults and its okay in a moment to moment experience, but as a whole adventure its...eh. A good place to start people on PF2 I think, but it has almost nothing of what I actually like in Adventure Paths. My own fault for running it, I suppose.

What would you enjoy ? Paizo people can have an awesome idea for an AP just by reading your wishes.

[Kasoh]

The Raven Black wrote:

Kasoh wrote:

Aside from Agents of Edgewatch, which I was disappointed by in the reading, none of the APs published or announced have been real winners for me and going into 2022 I see even less to be excited about. Granted we know so little about some of the upcoming paths that it could change, but I don't think so.

I'm running Abomination Vaults and its okay in a moment to moment experience, but as a whole adventure its...eh. A good place to start people on PF2 I think, but it has almost nothing of what I actually like in Adventure Paths. My own fault for running it, I suppose.

What would you enjoy ? Paizo people can have an awesome idea for an AP just by reading your wishes.

I feel like its hard to say. When I heard the one sentence summary of Agents of Edgewatch, Age of Ashes, or Strength of Thousands I think that they are cool concepts and that there's great potential for a great story to tell with my group.

Then I read the AP and the realities of publishing or a difference of vision or scope from the developer and I end up disappointed in the eventual product and I don't really think I should run it for my group anymore.

I think I'd like a sequel or spiritual successor to Iron Gods. I wouldn't mind punching Cheliax in the nose again. Lets do something problematic with Rahadoum and their anti-religious screed. I feel like if there was an opportunity to do something with Brevoy and Choral the Conqueror, that ship sailed when Game of Thrones ended. Post World Wound Sarkoris and the quagmire of Crusaders trying to leave, refugees returning and no one liking each other seems like a great place for interesting stories. I feel like someone got tired of Galt being Galt so we got that module and that'll have to satisfy for another decade.

I think about the APs that I've played and ran and what I like about them and then I look at the material that has been published and I think, "Well, its not for me anymore." Which happens. Paizo wants to explore other parts of Golarion, highlight other peoples and cultures that exist on the planetoid. Good for them.

Though, the concept for the Geb AP I just actively dislike.

[mikeawmids]

Age of Ashes, kinda meh. Book 2 was neat.

Extinction Curse, I like circuses and I like dinosaurs. It's not the end of the world for me if the circus element wanes as written, I can always change that at my table to refocus on that aspect.

Agents of Edgewatch, cool concept that I would like to run. As a UK resident, the whole media controversy kinda' flew over my head and I'm not gonna' crucify what seems like an innovative adventure for poor timing. I have faith that the players I game with would not do anything too icky with the theme.

Abomination Vaults, I usually convert from PF/PF2 to run in Savage Worlds, so a straight up dungeon crawl presents challenges that are not usually present. Consequently, while it may have had record breaking sales, I find it hard to be too excited about this one. I am happy to see three part APs though, which I did not think I would be a fan of, prior to this point.

Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, awesome concept, seems like it would be a nightmare to run, especially the initial contest on Danger Island. Also I would cut the two extra kaiju out of book three, as they are just kinda' there and detract from the awsome finale to book 2.

Strength of Thousands, great artwork, crappy/non-existent story. Books 1 through 4 might as well be individual modules loosely connected by a common theme. It looks like the actual plot will kick in book 5/6, but not read either yet, so who knows?

Quest for the Frozen Flame, interested in this one. I would probably go All Orc party in my home game.

Outlaws of Alkenstar, super hyped for this one, cannot wait!!

Blood Lords, interested in the theme and playing undead characters in a long campaign. I get the impression there will be some icky stuff that some folk are going to be vocal in their dislike of, but I say bring it on, push those boundaries on this occasion.

[The Raven Black]

AoE's system for loot is extremely problematic as written. You basically steal their whole wealth from anybody you want as long as you consider them guilty of offenses, even if you framed them yourself. It encourages PCs to play crooked cops, since honest ones will actually lose on wealth and equipment.

[Ixal]

The Raven Black wrote:

AoE's system for loot is extremely problematic as written. You basically steal their whole wealth from anybody you want as long as you consider them guilty of offenses, even if you framed them yourself. It encourages PCs to play crooked cops, since honest ones will actually lose on wealth and equipment.

Thats the whole problem. While advertised as a cop AP you are not playing cops, you are playing adventurers. Still charging in with greataxes and flinging fireballs and still looting your victims.

[Paradozen]

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

[mikeawmids]

Ixal wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

AoE's system for loot is extremely problematic as written. You basically steal their whole wealth from anybody you want as long as you consider them guilty of offenses, even if you framed them yourself. It encourages PCs to play crooked cops, since honest ones will actually lose on wealth and equipment.

Thats the whole problem. While advertised as a cop AP you are not playing cops, you are playing adventurers. Still charging in with greataxes and flinging fireballs and still looting your victims.

As written, sure - but it would not take too much to change that. Converting from d20 system to something with a more narrative/story focus, this becomes less of a problem for me and my table specifically, as party power/competency isn't dependent on acquiring x amount of treasure and magic items.

EDIT: Also, if they do veer into bent cop territory, I get to introduce a new NPC from Internal Affairs who starts asking questions and making life difficult, which would gel nicely with the events of book 5.

IMO, I don't think every group of players will notice or care about the arguaby icky connotations of fantasy policeman looting the fantasy bank robber they just immolated with fantasy magic fire. It's a cool theme, players get to lean into broad cop genre stereotypes and have fun bashing malcontents with a truncheon. I game to get away from all the horse manure of daily life/politics, I don't need Paizo to painstakingly recreate the same environment in my fantasy game world and will just change anything that really irks me.

But hey, that's just me.

Getting back on topic, tis truly a glorious time to be converting Pathfinder 2 adventures to a system that isn't Pathfinder 2!

[Kasoh]

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

Most of what we know is from the Gencon panels that were put up in August.

[Ixal]

mikeawmids wrote:

Ixal wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

AoE's system for loot is extremely problematic as written. You basically steal their whole wealth from anybody you want as long as you consider them guilty of offenses, even if you framed them yourself. It encourages PCs to play crooked cops, since honest ones will actually lose on wealth and equipment.

Thats the whole problem. While advertised as a cop AP you are not playing cops, you are playing adventurers. Still charging in with greataxes and flinging fireballs and still looting your victims.

As written, sure - but it would not take too much to change that. Converting from d20 system to something with a more narrative/story focus, this becomes less of a problem for me and my table specifically, as party power/competency isn't dependent on acquiring x amount of treasure and magic items.

EDIT: Also, if they do veer into bent cop territory, I get to introduce a new NPC from Internal Affairs who starts asking questions and making life difficult, which would gel nicely with the events of book 5.

IMO, I don't think every group of players will notice or care about the arguaby icky connotations of fantasy policeman looting the fantasy bank robber they just immolated with fantasy magic fire. It's a cool theme, players get to lean into broad cop genre stereotypes and have fun bashing malcontents with a truncheon. I game to get away from all the horse manure of daily life/politics, I don't need Paizo to painstakingly recreate the same environment in my fantasy game world and will just change anything that really irks me.

But hey, that's just me.

Getting back on topic, tis truly a glorious time to be converting Pathfinder 2 adventures to a system that isn't Pathfinder 2!

Sure I can rewrite AoE to require the players to think about how much force is appropriate instead of giving them a blanc cheque by making everything nonlethal, have them not loot enemies and instead rely on issued equipment and their pay, add NPCs and checks in case they try to swipe things anyway and introduce more cop dilemas.

I can also rewrite large parts of Fly Free or Die to make the space trucker/trader PCs to actually earn money through trading instead of a nearly useless pseudo currency.
But when I have to rewrite so much to make the gameplay fit the theme, why do I need to buy the AP in the first place instead of just reading the summary on the product page and come up with my own stuff?

[Deriven Firelion]

Agents of Edgewatch is a great AP. Probably my favorite of the new line of APs so far. It has a lot of excellent material in it. It really makes your players feel like heroic officers of the law.

The plot was the most cohesive and interesting of the APs. Enemies were interesting and extremely villainous. It had great role-play opportunities, interesting locations, and has been the most fun to run as a DM.

The only issues I had that I think were ill-thought out was the loot system of taking from the people you arrest and some of module three that sets the players up to be criminals. I didn't like those elements, so adjusted them accordingly.

Abom Vaults is a classic dungeon crawl with decent plotline in it. It has the feel of a living, breathing place with the main villain as the brain.

Age of Ashes was probably my least favorite. Plot didn't make sense. Everything seemed far too contrived. It had a good hook, but the hook wasn't executed very well.

Extinction Curse was a cohesive plot and fairly fun. But the circus element seemed tacked on.

Strength of Thousands truly was like playing Harry Potter. I thought people were joking when the comparison was made. I started to read it and it obviously was inspired by elements of Harry Potter. Not my cup of tea.

I hope folks don't forego playing Agents of Edgewatch because of the disclaimer. It really is a good AP, one of their better APs. A good DM can have a lot of fun with that AP. It's a very good mix of combat and role-playing.

[keftiu]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Strength of Thousands truly was like playing Harry Potter. I thought people were joking when the comparison was made. I started to read it and it obviously was inspired by elements of Harry Potter. Not my cup of tea.

Can I ask what you mean by this? The characters are only students for two books, and are about as far away culturally as one can get from a British boarding school, being in an African-inspired setting with a pretty wildly distinct vibe.

[Grankless]

Yeah, they were pretty open about it *not* being inspired by Harry Potter.

[Deriven Firelion]

Ixal wrote:

mikeawmids wrote:

Ixal wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

AoE's system for loot is extremely problematic as written. You basically steal their whole wealth from anybody you want as long as you consider them guilty of offenses, even if you framed them yourself. It encourages PCs to play crooked cops, since honest ones will actually lose on wealth and equipment.

Thats the whole problem. While advertised as a cop AP you are not playing cops, you are playing adventurers. Still charging in with greataxes and flinging fireballs and still looting your victims.

As written, sure - but it would not take too much to change that. Converting from d20 system to something with a more narrative/story focus, this becomes less of a problem for me and my table specifically, as party power/competency isn't dependent on acquiring x amount of treasure and magic items.

EDIT: Also, if they do veer into bent cop territory, I get to introduce a new NPC from Internal Affairs who starts asking questions and making life difficult, which would gel nicely with the events of book 5.

IMO, I don't think every group of players will notice or care about the arguaby icky connotations of fantasy policeman looting the fantasy bank robber they just immolated with fantasy magic fire. It's a cool theme, players get to lean into broad cop genre stereotypes and have fun bashing malcontents with a truncheon. I game to get away from all the horse manure of daily life/politics, I don't need Paizo to painstakingly recreate the same environment in my fantasy game world and will just change anything that really irks me.

But hey, that's just me.

Getting back on topic, tis truly a glorious time to be converting Pathfinder 2 adventures to a system that isn't Pathfinder 2!

Sure I can rewrite AoE to require the players to think about how much force is appropriate instead of giving them a blanc cheque by making everything nonlethal, have them not loot enemies and instead rely on issued equipment and their pay, add...

I completely disregarded the nonlethal damage rule that was tacked on. It was completely unnecessary as a lot of what you're fighting wasn't even affected by nonlethal damage. No reasonable person would think using nonlethal damage against what they were fighting was appropriate. The Edgewatch AP is one of their darkest APs as far as content. It is Silence of the Lambs on steroids dark. That disclaimer was unnecessary and the loot system was far more egregious a mistake in the PR department.

And the only adjustment I made to loot was to change the loot from taking from the criminals to adding the gold value up as a gear requisition number allowing the players to requisition gear equal to the amount they would have received had they sold everything. I figure they grew into an elite unit of cops that was better funded than standard police because they dealt with the heavy hitting criminals in the city.

Agents of Edgewatch is an exceptional AP. Not perfect, but excellent. I felt very inspired running that AP. Lots of excellent material to build on. It really is a good AP. It has immense material to inspire a really creative, fun adventure playing an elite unit in the City Watch.

[Deriven Firelion]

keftiu wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Strength of Thousands truly was like playing Harry Potter. I thought people were joking when the comparison was made. I started to read it and it obviously was inspired by elements of Harry Potter. Not my cup of tea.

Can I ask what you mean by this? The characters are only students for two books, and are about as far away culturally as one can get from a British boarding school, being in an African-inspired setting with a pretty wildly distinct vibe.

I mean the overall environment of being students. You had various student archetypes that felt like types of students I would find in Hogworts. I wasn't about to DM this mix of students with cutesie students, the single mother, the smart, ambitious Hermione type.

The set up interview didn't make sense.

Changing the cultural elements did not change the underlying feel of something for me. It felt like something I would find in a Harry Potter type of book. I wasn't going to play it.

[Deriven Firelion]

Grankless wrote:

Yeah, they were pretty open about it *not* being inspired by Harry Potter.

They can say what they want. It felt like Harry Potter. A collection of odd students thrown together at a magical school with some standard student archetypes including the ambitious, smart female student that felt like Hermione.

As a DM that is not my cup of tea to run.

That AP did not inspire me at all to run it.

I went to converting Rise of the Runelords. One of the best APs they ever made. A pleasure to read and an AP that fuels your DMing juices to explore that adventure path. I love Rise of the Runelords.

[Rysky]

... so you don't like smart female NPCs?

Forgive the (hopefully) hyperbole there, but why the umbrage against that, or any cast of characters for that matter?

Harry Potter isn't the only fantasy school based series. And playing it, they have nothing in common almost other than there's a place of learning and magic exists in the setting.

[Deriven Firelion]

Rysky wrote:

... so you don't like smart female NPCs?

Forgive the (hopefully) hyperbole there, but why the umbrage against that, or any cast of characters for that matter?

Harry Potter isn't the only fantasy school based series. And playing it, they have nothing in common almost other than there's a place of learning and magic exists in the setting.

Just not something I would enjoy running.

Little Gnoll Pup with his fruit beetle collection is not very interesting roleplaying to my group and I.

I read up to the breakdown of the school living area with all the cute and interesting other students the players were supposed to interact with and knew that it wasn't a module for a group of old men like us.

I did enjoy the Harry Potter movies and Hermione was an awesome character. Just not interested in roleplaying those types of characters or the school scenario at this point in life.

Hopefully it will be appealing to a younger generation or someone running their kids.

I'll wait for Bloodlords or the Quest for Flame series. See if I like those.

[Rysky]

"I read up to the breakdown of the school living area with all the cute and interesting other students the players were supposed to interact with and knew that it wasn't a module for a group of old men like us."

This is what's confusing to me, I like interesting characters, so not having any is bizarre to me. Also all the students are adults, you're not playing kids hanging out with kids, so "group of old men" just gets more confusing.

Except for Tzeniwe's kids, but she's the student, not them.

[The Raven Black]

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

You do not try to change Geb, and definitely not try to overthrow the system. You are defending it against a dire threat.

And the system you defend is very much not Good PCs friendly.

[keftiu]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Rysky wrote:

... so you don't like smart female NPCs?

Forgive the (hopefully) hyperbole there, but why the umbrage against that, or any cast of characters for that matter?

Harry Potter isn't the only fantasy school based series. And playing it, they have nothing in common almost other than there's a place of learning and magic exists in the setting.

Just not something I would enjoy running.

Little Gnoll Pup with his fruit beetle collection is not very interesting roleplaying to my group and I.

I read up to the breakdown of the school living area with all the cute and interesting other students the players were supposed to interact with and knew that it wasn't a module for a group of old men like us.

I did enjoy the Harry Potter movies and Hermione was an awesome character. Just not interested in roleplaying those types of characters or the school scenario at this point in life.

Hopefully it will be appealing to a younger generation or someone running their kids.

I have to ask - would you consider all magic school stories "Harry Potter?" Because that's the disconnect for me here; there's not really anything shared between the two stories otherwise. Most Magaambyans, including the PCs, are adults, and the player characters spend 4 of the AP's 6 books as teachers/staff, doing things far away from the school.

[keftiu]

The Raven Black wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

You do not try to change Geb, and definitely not try to overthrow the system. You are defending it against a dire threat.

And the system you defend is very much not Good PCs friendly.

They haven't said anything about the threat or who the PCs are, right?

[Rysky]

keftiu wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

You do not try to change Geb, and definitely not try to overthrow the system. You are defending it against a dire threat.

And the system you defend is very much not Good PCs friendly.

They haven't said anything about the threat or who the PCs are, right?

Watch it be Arazni.

Writers: You have to stop her!

Players/GMs: no we wanna work for her.

Writers: ... wait what

[The Raven Black]

keftiu wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

You do not try to change Geb, and definitely not try to overthrow the system. You are defending it against a dire threat.

And the system you defend is very much not Good PCs friendly.

They haven't said anything about the threat or who the PCs are, right?

Nothing that I remember. Someone said you could play undead or living, and maybe a mix of both. But I do not remember if it was official or not.

[keftiu]

Rysky wrote:

keftiu wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

You do not try to change Geb, and definitely not try to overthrow the system. You are defending it against a dire threat.

And the system you defend is very much not Good PCs friendly.

They haven't said anything about the threat or who the PCs are, right?

Watch it be Arazni.

Writers: You have to stop her!

Players/GMs: no we wanna work for her.

Writers: ... wait what

There would be riots in the streets... and I'd be leading them.

Part of me was hoping we'd have Inquisitors playable before we went to Geb so I could play as one dedicated to her.

[The Raven Black]

I don't see Arazni as wanting anything to do with Geb except undermine it.

[Deriven Firelion]

keftiu wrote:

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Rysky wrote:

... so you don't like smart female NPCs?

Forgive the (hopefully) hyperbole there, but why the umbrage against that, or any cast of characters for that matter?

Harry Potter isn't the only fantasy school based series. And playing it, they have nothing in common almost other than there's a place of learning and magic exists in the setting.

Just not something I would enjoy running.

Little Gnoll Pup with his fruit beetle collection is not very interesting roleplaying to my group and I.

I read up to the breakdown of the school living area with all the cute and interesting other students the players were supposed to interact with and knew that it wasn't a module for a group of old men like us.

I did enjoy the Harry Potter movies and Hermione was an awesome character. Just not interested in roleplaying those types of characters or the school scenario at this point in life.

Hopefully it will be appealing to a younger generation or someone running their kids.

I have to ask - would you consider all magic school stories "Harry Potter?" Because that's the disconnect for me here; there's not really anything shared between the two stories otherwise. Most Magaambyans, including the PCs, are adults, and the player characters spend 4 of the AP's 6 books as teachers/staff, doing things far away from the school.

No. It's just the most recent example.

If the all students were adults, I could not tell.

An adult having a fruit beetle collection they show off doesn't seem very adult to me.

From reading their descriptions, they seemed more like teenagers except for the Anadi mom with the two cute little spider hatchlings.

[Deriven Firelion]

Rysky wrote:

"I read up to the breakdown of the school living area with all the cute and interesting other students the players were supposed to interact with and knew that it wasn't a module for a group of old men like us."

This is what's confusing to me, I like interesting characters, so not having any is bizarre to me. Also all the students are adults, you're not playing kids hanging out with kids, so "group of old men" just gets more confusing.

Except for Tzeniwe's kids, but she's the student, not them.

The students were not interesting to me.

My players have no interest in being teachers or school staff.

They want to play in APs where they get lots of combat and situations where they get to use their combat feats and magic weapons.

[Deriven Firelion]

The Raven Black wrote:

keftiu wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Paradozen wrote:

Have the official pages for Blood Lords been created/posted yet? I love the setting, I just haven't seen anything firm on what it is actually about. I assume it's about the Blood Lords and stirring some change in Geb through methods disagreeable to Good people from what I've read, but haven't seen a description of plot/premise beyond the background setting.

You do not try to change Geb, and definitely not try to overthrow the system. You are defending it against a dire threat.

And the system you defend is very much not Good PCs friendly.

They haven't said anything about the threat or who the PCs are, right?

Nothing that I remember. Someone said you could play undead or living, and maybe a mix of both. But I do not remember if it was official or not.

One of my players will be happy to play undead.

[mikeawmids]

Deriven Firelion wrote:

As a DM that is not my cup of tea to run.

That AP did not inspire me at all to run it.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Just not something I would enjoy running.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

I read up to the breakdown ... and knew that it wasn't a module for a group of old men like us.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Just not interested in roleplaying those types of characters or the school scenario at this point in life.

Deriven Firelion wrote:

I'll wait for Bloodlords or the Quest for Flame series. See if I like those.

He did. Repeatedly.

[Grankless]

Earthsea and Discworld are such blatant Harry Potter ripoffs, what with having magic schools that have characters in them. I've always felt that the characters need to be left out of fiction moving forward. It's all about objects and verbs, baby.

[James Jacobs]

Folks... one of the main reasons we do multiple Adventure Paths in a year is because we know not every one will be one that appeals to every person. That includes us, the developers, who create them. We change things up to challenge ourselves, stretch our creativity, and keep ourselves interested.

EDIT: Cut a wall of text, because I don't feel confident in my ability to get my point across these days, so I'll just be short and simple.

Please be patient with each other.

[Deriven Firelion]

Rysky wrote:

“An adult having a fruit beetle collection they show off doesn't seem very adult to me.”

An adult can’t have hobbies? Dood, you collect books to play a fantasy game where you pretend to be an elf or something.

If y’all weren’t interested in a combat-lite School AP you should have just said that.

That character was not portrayed as an adult. My reading of the characters is they are teenagers, maybe college age adults, but written as teenager types. That is the feeling I had when reading them. If you felt like they were adults, so be it. I won't question your reading. I felt differently when reading the characters.

I gave you the reasons I wasn't interested. The characters weren't interesting which I didn't put in quotes as I knew you would question that and they seemed goofy. It's one of the first APs I've read and couldn't get past the first chapter.

I responded to you because you asked.

If I say it seems like Harry Potter, it means I see Harry Potter in the characters. If you don't, you don't. It's an entirely subjective opinion.

Harry Potter is by far the most popular and well-known fiction based on students at a magic school. There may be other books or shows on the topic, but none as well known as Harry Potter. It's pretty easy to see why that would be the first idea that came to mind regardless of claims that it was not inspired by Harry Potter. I myself have read no other fiction inspired by teens or characters at a magic school other than Harry Potter and I think some chapters in the second book of The Name of the Wind series.

It seems like people were giving ratings for the APs they like and dislike like the OP stating the Agents of Edgewatch was "ill-advised" in their opinion. I consider that one of their best designed and written APs of the new APs even though I was reticent to play it after the hoopla that occurred when it came out. While I consider Strength of Thousands one of their worst APs since release and only one that has caused me to stop reading in the first chapter of the first book.

As Jacobs says, that is entirely subjective.

[Berhagen]

I like the variation of all the APs. Of course Pathfinder is not the ideal system for combat-lite adventures (compared to almost any other system), but then I have players who like mixing combat and alternate options…. so these APs end up quite well for my group.

I would like to GM the Geb AP, regrettably a few of my group don’t like having to play too evil/gray characters but might buy it just for reading.

[PossibleCabbage]

Do we have information on how evil you're expected/required to be in the Geb AP?

I sort of figured the baseline would be "someone who is horrified by all of this, but is just trying to get by". Or at least I hope I'd be able to play the "I was born in Geb, I've never lived anywhere else, I know enough to understand abstractly that I should be generally horrified by all of this, but my options are extremely limited, but that doesn't mean I'm not looking for an out" character.

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Do we have information on how evil you're expected/required to be in the Geb AP?

I sort of figured the baseline would be "someone who is horrified by all of this, but is just trying to get by". Or at least I hope I'd be able to play the "I was born in Geb, I've never lived anywhere else, I know enough to understand abstractly that I should be generally horrified by all of this, but my options are extremely limited, but that doesn't mean I'm not looking for an out" character.

Not much other than James Jacobs saying it wasn’t a great fit for Good characters back during Gen Con talks.

[Toxicsyn]

I'm looking forward to reading up about the Geb AP. I'm hoping it's going to be a story for those PCs that always wanted to play a necromancer or undead character.

I imagine the story will involve dealing with themes of: Undead + Living in harmony with one another. And they're going to be going up against undead that want to kill all the living (i.e the Whispering Way), undead hunters, psychopomps, and a angry old ghost named Geb who is resistant against change.

[James Jacobs]

The Geb Adventure Path doesn't assume your party is evil, but if they are, it certainly won't mind. It's set in an evil nation, though, so characters who are eager to defeat an evil nation like Geb would be no more appropriate than those eager to, say, uphold Cheliax's government in "Hell's Rebels" or seek to stop piracy and play "Skull & Shackles."

Which is to say, you could play Blood Lords with good characters, but your GM will need to do a lot of work in adjusting the plot.

If you DO want to play a campaign where your PCs fight against the rulers of Geb and try to bring an end to the nation , then the Blood Lords Adventure Path will absolutely give your GM a lot of stat blocks and locations and NPCs that they can use as a significant stepping stone toward a campaign of their own design though... and that's a use that I feel like folks often forget that an Adventure Path can provide: A GM who wants to and has the time to build their own campaign can use a similarly-themed Adventure Path as, essentially, a nearly 600 page sourcebook to draw material from to build their plots and encounters. In this way, you could build a "play evil characters who take down the Silver Ravens of Ravounel" campaign out of "Hell's Rebels," or a " Defeat the leader of the Shackles" campaign out of Skull & Shackles with a fair amount of work, but not NEARLY as much work as it would take to start from scratch.

As for further details on the Blood Lords Adventure Path... we're months away from starting to drum things up there. Remember, there's two more Adventure Paths and one more Kingmaker to start pumping folks up for before we get to Blood Lords!

We'll get there, but it'll be several months is what I'm saying.

[mikeawmids]

The first book is called 'Zombie Feast', right? That's all I need to know. Take my money!

[Perpdepog]

The Raven Black wrote:

I don't see Arazni as wanting anything to do with Geb except undermine it.

I think she'd eagerly destroy it, or at least the ghostly necromancer himself, if she could. Presumably she's not, yet, for one reason or another.

I think you're right that she would devote some of her energies to undermining it though if at all possible. At the scale she operates at, being a deity now, that may be seen as a little petty ... but Arazni also has zero qualms about indulging in pettiness when she feels its deserved.

[Deriven Firelion]

James Jacobs wrote:

The Geb Adventure Path doesn't assume your party is evil, but if they are, it certainly won't mind. It's set in an evil nation, though, so characters who are eager to defeat an evil nation like Geb would be no more appropriate than those eager to, say, uphold Cheliax's government in "Hell's Rebels" or seek to stop piracy and play "Skull & Shackles."

Which is to say, you could play Blood Lords with good characters, but your GM will need to do a lot of work in adjusting the plot.

If you DO want to play a campaign where your PCs fight against the rulers of Geb and try to bring an end to the nation , then the Blood Lords Adventure Path will absolutely give your GM a lot of stat blocks and locations and NPCs that they can use as a significant stepping stone toward a campaign of their own design though... and that's a use that I feel like folks often forget that an Adventure Path can provide: A GM who wants to and has the time to build their own campaign can use a similarly-themed Adventure Path as, essentially, a nearly 600 page sourcebook to draw material from to build their plots and encounters. In this way, you could build a "play evil characters who take down the Silver Ravens of Ravounel" campaign out of "Hell's Rebels," or a " Defeat the leader of the Shackles" campaign out of Skull & Shackles with a fair amount of work, but not NEARLY as much work as it would take to start from scratch.

As for further details on the Blood Lords Adventure Path... we're months away from starting to drum things up there. Remember, there's two more Adventure Paths and one more Kingmaker to start pumping folks up for before we get to Blood Lords!

We'll get there, but it'll be several months is what I'm saying.

This sounds very interesting. I think my group will like this.

[Tonya Woldridge]

Popped in and removed a couple of posts that were baiting. Now returning you to the discussion.

[PossibleCabbage]

I just hope "whatever is happening to Geb is not something that the players (out of character) would be rooting for to happen." Since that was kind of a problem in Hell's Vengeance (but not in other evil friendly APs like Reign of Winter, Skull & Shackles, and Strange Aeons.)

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I just hope "whatever is happening to Geb is not something that the players (out of character) would be rooting for to happen." Since that was kind of a problem in Hell's Vengeance (but not in other evil friendly APs like Reign of Winter, Skull & Shackles, and Strange Aeons.)

This is something I’m curious to see as well. Geb being threatened feels like a good thing, y’know? I suppose “prevent a war with Nex that would likely devastate the entire region” fits the bill, but I’m unsure if this will be that story.