Level 20 NPC |
As the title says. I always thought this was legit and even made a character using this combo because i needed one more combat feat, then i realized i could be wrong.
One problem is the sentence "so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks".
Now, training COULD be applied to unarmed attacks in theory, right?
Another problem is this sentence: "as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand".
Let's say you're using a bow and you buy an AoMF with training (manyshot). An unarmed strike should be always "drawn and in hand", so you should be able to use manyshot. Or no?
zza ni |
how do you apply manyshot with an unarmed strike?
(kidding, i know it talk about the weapon enchantment, not the feat it gives).
kinda cheesy. the weapon drawn was in part to prevent one from getting a lot of weapons, each with it's own feat and just hoarding feats.
i would say while using any other weapon (unless you 2\multi weapon fighting) you lose the feat from any weapon not used.
hack this is also to prevent a juggler bard from getting a ton of feats while juggling his training daggers.
7 training daggers drawn and wielded at level 18 and one would be improved unarmed strike and then amulet for an 8th!
on 2nd thought a juggler bard would still get to have all of them feats, up to two at a time. so as long as they don't need them all together they are fine even with this limitation...
Mark Hoover 330 |
As the title says. I always thought this was legit and even made a character using this combo because i needed one more combat feat, then i realized i could be wrong.
One problem is the sentence "so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks".
Now, training COULD be applied to unarmed attacks in theory, right?
Another problem is this sentence: "as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand".Let's say you're using a bow and you buy an AoMF with training (manyshot). An unarmed strike should be always "drawn and in hand", so you should be able to use manyshot. Or no?
The weapon drawn and in hand is the source of the feat combined with training. Do you draw unarmed attacks and put them in hand? If the answer is no, I don't feel like this would work.
Mysterious Stranger |
To me drawn and in hand means you are ready to use the weapon. If you are using a bow then you are not ready to use your unarmed strike. Without improved unarmed strike you do not threaten the adjacent square cast doubt that an unarmed strike is always in drawn and ready.
In all honest this is too cheesy and most GM’s will veto it.
zza ni |
ok found a faq that support my idea that you actually need to use the weapon with the special weapon property to gain it. so getting rapid shot on an amulet won't help you unless you shoot fists (which some monks actually can do).
"Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits. "
Level 20 NPC |
To me drawn and in hand means you are ready to use the weapon. If you are using a bow then you are not ready to use your unarmed strike. Without improved unarmed strike you do not threaten the adjacent square cast doubt that an unarmed strike is always in drawn and ready.
In all honest this is too cheesy and most GM’s will veto it.
What if my character had Improved unarmed strike (which he has)? Also, you can kick someone even if you have a bow in hand i guess
Level 20 NPC |
ok found a faq that support my idea that you actually need to use the weapon with the special weapon property to gain it. so getting rapid shot on an amulet won't help you unless you shoot fists (which some monks actually can do).
"Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits. "
What if we use a more general feat like Improved initiative? Does it make it better?
zza ni |
again you need to use the item to get the feat. since it's a weapon enchantment you need to attack. once you do you gain the feat (i guess for that round? not sure until when. defending is specifically one round power. the faq require you to use the itme to gain the benefit so i guess once each round?)
Name Violation |
zza ni wrote:What if we use a more general feat like Improved initiative? Does it make it better?ok found a faq that support my idea that you actually need to use the weapon with the special weapon property to gain it. so getting rapid shot on an amulet won't help you unless you shoot fists (which some monks actually can do).
"Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits. "
so then if you are capable of making an unarmed strike, you would get the benefits.
so IF you can make an unarmed strike you would have +4 initiative.
but after initiative was rolled, it wouldn't change
Taja the Barbarian |
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My personal opinion:
- If you honestly intend to attack with the enchanted weapon, you should get the feat.
- If you don't, you shouldn't get the feat due to the overabundance of cheese.
In this particular case, you definitely shouldn't get a bonus feat from your AoMF if you have no intention of actually making unarmed attacks.
MargarineMeadow |
This thread isn’t that old and it’s directly on point to an issue I’m having, so I’m going to do some light necro-threading here.
I have a draconic bloodline sorcerer/dragon disciple who uses natural attacks rather than unarmed strikes. I just finished all the pre-reqs for Whirlwind Attack but the game might not make it beyond two more levels, so I’m trying to use the training special weapon property to finish the feat chain.
The AoMF explicitly works with natural attacks but the weapon special ability specifically calls out unarmed strikes. Since I am planning to use the “weapon” while making the Whirlwind Attack, does this seem okay?