spontaneous heighten


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ok, it looks like we're going to play a few weeks of a 2e shortly and I have a question about heightening spells for spontaneous casters. In short, why? If you have to have the higher level spell anyway, why would you ever say you're heightening the lower one? It doesn't make sense. Just cast the higher one.

I can see having both... you might not want to burn a higher slot on weaker targets, so having both saves the more powerful one for another battle. But it just seems like the sorceror will never really be heightening anything.

Sczarni

Heightening is a benefit, allowing you to cast a spell for added effects, as described in each spell that can be heightened.

If you're 3rd level and you know heal as a signature spell, for example, you can choose either the 1d8 version as a 1st level spell, or the 2d8 version as a 2nd level spell.

Liberty's Edge

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Casting the higher-level version of the spell IS heightening.

Liberty's Edge

Nefreet wrote:

Heightening is a benefit, allowing you to cast a spell for added effects, as described in each spell that can be heightened.

If you're 3rd level and you know heal as a signature spell, for example, you can choose either the 1d8 version as a 1st level spell, or the 2d8 version as a 2nd level spell.

Yes. And a Heightened spell is more difficult to counter too.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

What all of you said is true for prepared casters, not spontaneous casters.

Spontaneous casters have to actually add the spell to their repertoire. Prepared casters do not. You're not "heightening" if it's already on your list, you simply replaced one of your know spells with the higher level version.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

In other words, the sorceror is not "heightening" his 3rd level version of fireball, he's simply casting the 5th level version that's already in his repertoire.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
taks wrote:
In other words, the sorceror is not "heightening" his 3rd level version of fireball, he's simply casting the 5th level version that's already in his repertoire.

"Casting 5th level fireball" and "casting fireball, heightened to 5th level" are functionally identical statements. This is how the verb is used in the sorcerer spellcasting class feature. (Also remember that Signature spells can be heightened to any level slot you have, and don't need to be in your repertoire at separate levels.)

Quote:

Heightening Spells

When you get spell slots of 2nd level and higher, you can fill those slots with stronger versions of lower-level spells. This increases the spell's level to match the spell slot. You must have a spell in your spell repertoire at the level you want to cast in order to heighten it to that level. Many spells have specific improvements when they are heightened to certain levels. The signature spells class feature lets you heighten certain spells freely.


Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
HammerJack wrote:
"Casting 5th level fireball" and "casting fireball, heightened to 5th level" are functionally identical statements. This is how the verb is used in the sorcerer spellcasting class feature. (Also remember that Signature spells can be heightened to any level slot you have, and don't need to be in your repertoire at separate levels.)

Yeah, that's my point, it's redundant. I don't know why they even bothered to mention it. "Spontaneous casters cannot heighten spells in the same manner as prepared casters, though they can add heightened version of spells to their repertoire" seems less... something. Exceptions noted with signature spells, however.

Grand Archive

I think the answer to your original question is signature spells. Or, if the GM allows, 'heightening' down spells. As for why you would want to heighten down? Maybe you don't have any more of the highest level spell slots available. Maybe you only need the effect of a lower level version. There are not many reasons to downcast, but they do exist.

Sczarni

taks wrote:
HammerJack wrote:
"Casting 5th level fireball" and "casting fireball, heightened to 5th level" are functionally identical statements. This is how the verb is used in the sorcerer spellcasting class feature. (Also remember that Signature spells can be heightened to any level slot you have, and don't need to be in your repertoire at separate levels.)
Yeah, that's my point, it's redundant. I don't know why they even bothered to mention it. "Spontaneous casters cannot heighten spells in the same manner as prepared casters, though they can add heightened version of spells to their repertoire" seems less... something. Exceptions noted with signature spells, however.

If a Wizard knows burning hands as a 1st level spell, they automatically know the 2nd level version, the 3rd level version, and so on.

This isn't true for Sorcerers. They have to learn them each separately.

Unless burning hands is one of their signature spells.

That's the difference.

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