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Im Playing a PFS Songbird-Strix Maetro Bard and just reached level 3.
Because of doubts of what i want to achieve with my Build im seriously considering rebuilding my Character.
The Core of the Build are these 3 Class feats:
@LvL 1 Lingering Performance
@LvL 6 Dirge of Doom which makes Inspire Courage absolut (except in the rare case enemys are immune to it).
@LvL8 Inspire Heroics for the Synesthesia Combo.
I also use Bon Mot to lower Will Saves of my Enemies
Which means my lvl 2 and 4 Feats are basically free to choose.
Currently i have taken Sorcerer Dedication for Electric Arc and want to take Basicspellcasting at lvl 4 for extra spells slots and primal spells .
I still try to get the +1 Status Bonus to Hit for my team and there are 3 Ways for it:
1. Heroism: I kind of dislike the spell now, too short duration and only targets 1 player (i miss my good hope)
2. Bless: kinda underrated in my opinion. Lasts a minute and you can expand the emanation once per round. With good Positioning a lot of people can benefit from it. With Haste on the Bard you regain mobility.
3. Inspiring Marshal Stance
The best and trickiest Option and the reason for my potential rebuild.
The Aura starts of with 10ft with a reasonable chance of 20ft and once the stance is active it last the whole fight.
Getting Marshal Dedication is only possible with Human Ancestry - Versatile Heritage for Weapon Proficiency . Adapted Cantrip gives me Electric Arc which makes the Sorcerer Dedication irrelevant.
In addition the dedication bumps my Diplomacy to Expert which fress a Skill increase.
Virtuosic Performer replaces the Songbird Bonus.
Am i overthinking? Did i get a stupid idea in my head that i try to get to work or is a rebuild for Marshal worth it?
Hope to get some insight and your thoughts
IMHO!
There's optimization problems with both builds.
Let's try to understand some of them.
Currently i have taken Sorcerer Dedication for Electric Arc and want to take Basicspellcasting at lvl 4 for extra spells slots and primal spells .
The idea of take a spellcasters dedication to gain more spellslots is good but take primal tradition isn't too good. Having a different tradition from MC will make you to use the MC spellcasting proficiency witch is lower than your own occult spellcasting. For buff and heal spells this isn't a thing but primal spells are basically divided between some buffs and heal and a large number of offensive spells. If you are taking this to have more buffs/heals is better to take divine instead because at last will allow you to take more buff/heal/remove condition spells or if you want to use the extra spells to attack too just take the occult tradition to allow you to use same high DC from bard. If you want to use Eletric Arc I suggest you to take it from Adapted Cantrip to will avoid have a lower DC due MC.
I still try to get the +1 Status Bonus to Hit for my team and there are 3 Ways for it:
1. Heroism: I kind of dislike the spell now, too short duration and only targets 1 player (i miss my good hope)
2. Bless: kinda underrated in my opinion. Lasts a minute and you can expand the emanation once per round. With good Positioning a lot of people can benefit from it. With Haste on the Bard you regain mobility.
I don't understand you already have Inspire Courage why such worry about +1 status bonus to hit? I imagine that's because you want to use when you are trying other composition spell. But OK you are right you can give this through Bless or Heroism and I agree with you Heroism without heightened is just too expensive. But for other side the bless range is too small and may put your char in risk specially against large creatures but have AoE and is way cheaper also is very useful at low levels where the bard can still do a good fight using melee weapons.
3. Inspiring Marshal Stance
The best and trickiest Option and the reason for my potential rebuild.
The Aura starts of with 10ft with a reasonable chance of 20ft and once the stance is active it last the whole fight.
Marshal Dedication is a good archetype and the fact that's is cha base also make Inspiring Marshal Stance a good feat but the use of 2 feats make's it expensive. If you want to take others marsha's feats OK but if is just this one feat I think you can do both boost your allies/fear your enemies combining your composition spells with your casting occult spells more easier, versatile and flexible. You choose between both use your composition spell to boost your entire party and use your spellslot to debuff the opponents or your Dirge of Doom to debuff all opponents and bless/heroism to buff your allies. Swich them depending of the situation.
IMHO!
There's optimization problems with both builds.
Let's try to understand some of them.
Currently i have taken Sorcerer Dedication for Electric Arc and want to take Basicspellcasting at lvl 4 for extra spells slots and primal spells .The idea of take a spellcasters dedication to gain more spellslots is good but take primal tradition isn't too good. Having a different tradition from MC will make you to use the MC spellcasting proficiency witch is lower than your own occult spellcasting. For buff and heal spells this isn't a thing but primal spells are basically divided between some buffs and heal and a large number of offensive spells. If you are taking this to have more buffs/heals is better to take divine instead because at last will allow you to take more buff/heal/remove condition spells or if you want to use the extra spells to attack too just take the occult tradition to allow you to use same high DC from bard. If you want to use Eletric Arc I suggest you to take it from Adapted Cantrip to will avoid have a lower DC due MC.
Yes an inate cantrip would be OK. But from a multiclass you end up with a separate casting skill. Still there is no difference for levels 1-6. Beyond that you probably are using your cantrips mostly when it is less important. Basically with the builds you are talking about you don't have the actions to cast cantrips, so I wouldn't sweat on it. Personally I find Telekinetic Projectile enough from mid level.
I still try to get the +1 Status Bonus to Hit for my team and there are 3 Ways for it:
1. Heroism: I kind of dislike the spell now, too short duration and only targets 1 player (i miss my good hope)
Herosim in the playtest was awesome. Now its just OK. I really only like it when its heightened for a larger bonus.
I like Marshall for To Battle and Target of Opportunity. There is plenty of good stuff here.
Unless you take Inspire Defense, you will get the +1 status bonus through Inspire Heroics + Inspire Courage.
From your words, it looks like you haven't understood what Inspire Heroics does.
Playing bard @12 now, and I never use Inspire Courage. Neither do I have Inspire Heroics (which only works with Insp Courage/Defense, not with Dirge). Dirge is my main tool, followed by Insp. defense, and Lingering is often used for action economy. Heroics is a waste in my opinion.
Bless is good and will stay good, no need to heighten it later on. Bards should not be afraid to get hit, they have HP and AC is pretty good. Bless, Circle of Protection and Dirge of Doom together can be an awesome boost (add Synesthesia where needed).
As for Marshal, that can be very useful. But the Aura is also small, so there is not much difference with Bless. And you need to invest in diplomacy a lot. If you want Marshal just for the Aura, not sure if that is worth it.
A caster dedication can be useful for those spells that don't require heightening. If you choose the occult list, they can be offensively used, if you choose another list, there is little sense using it offensively. So that would mean buffs and heals. The cost is high, for those extra spells, In my opinion. There are a lot of very nice dedication a bard can use. Swashbuckler, dandy, linguist, champion. MOst of them are more useful than a caster dedication. A bard has enough spells, and a lot of other action that can be done when not casting. Believe me, you can use 5 actions per round if you want.
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If you're the only one that can give a status bonus, then marshal stance coupled with lingering dirge is ok, but if you have another source of status bonus in the party (bless or heroism for example), consider swashbuckler dedication for one-for-all.
It's single target, but circumstance bonuses are much harder to come by and Aid having a static dc lets it scale much harder as you eventually become very likely to crit succeed and grant higher bonuses vs marshal whose dc scales with level and only affects radius.
It also provides a better use for your reaction as your ability to hit targets, especially with a -2 as from target of opportunity, has fallen off badly by the time you get it at level 14. No reason you can't eventually get both dedications though.
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First thanks for the Help there are some insightful ideas
@gesalt as i understand it "one for all" is an action not a reaction.
@Falco271 you meant to say "expand bless" i dont see a way to highten it.
@yurip and @superbidi i dont have status bonus because i will be using dirge of doom and as i understand lingering performance and inspire heroics dont work together.also i can use inspire heroics only (at max) 2 times per fight since its a focus spell and counter performance is sometime crucial!
there is an Option to take harmonize at lvl 8 but i'm not sure its a usefull idea sicne i need to recast it every turn.
The more i think about it Haste is really important on a bard but i prefer slow and circle of protection at that level.
Marchal Stance/Bless with Circle of Protection and Dirge of Doom looks like a sweet Combo.
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One for all is an action that allows you to get excellent results on your Aid reaction.
Especially if Human with Cooperative Nature.
Indeed. One for All is almost worth the swashbuckler ded alone. But guardians deflectiom adds a nice defensive reaction on top of that, for a bard not afraid to stay close to the front. Combine with a whip for maximized effect.
@DonKalleOne: I meant Bless, as a first level spell, stays effective, no need to heighten it as with lots of other spells. A spontaneous caster needs signature spells, but also non-signature spells that can be used on their own level. Bless, Command, hideous laughter, etc.
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Main advantage of inspire courage over dirge is that bards are really good at demoralising.
For a cheap turn you can move inspire courage demoralize for +2 to +3 math advantage to your party.
To get into Marshall you could always dual muse to get warrior muse.