Too Mqny Good Ideas


Psychic Class


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The problem I see with the Psychic class is not that it doesn't have any good ideas, but that it has too many. And by trying to put all of them into one class, none of them have the space to feel flushed out.

There is of course slotted casters. The Psychic doesn't get enough slots to feel meaningful. And there is the idea of slotless casters. But the Psychic doesn't get enough unique choices here for that to feel interesting either.

And of course, you need some kind of cool new mechanism to make the class feel even more unique (something you guys have been hitting out of the Park with in P2e). The Psychic has two: the Amp system, and the rage-like forms.

This class should really pick one from each category, and try to flush them out to make them more interesting. What I would do if I were you is to make the Psychic a full slotted caster with the Amp system (turning the amps into something more akin to metamagic, but that take no actions). And take the slotless idea, mix it with the forms, and come up with the best anime inspired kineticist you can.

By doing so, you can take the time to make these separate ideas really shine. Oh, and add a Wis based Psychic, of course. I really want to play my Psychic Monk.


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Psychic as just a full slotted caster with amps as their unique thing is... honestly very little progress from the existing baseline. If amps are just "metamagic that you spend focus points on" it's even worse. We already have three different classes worth of casters with access to the occult list, and they're all more interesting than that.

Basically, "slotted caster" doesn't get to count as "interesting" anymore, any more than a martial-standard set of proficiencies does. If anything, going from 2 slots to 3 or 4 makes them less interesting, not more. At least "you have the same levels of spell slots, but fewer" is something a bit different. Trying to figure out how to leverage this more limited resource pool is a somewhat different and therefore interesting challenge. The only real issue is that they need to give it more beef on the other side to balance things out and make the tradeoff worth it.


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Sanityfaerie wrote:

Psychic as just a full slotted caster with amps as their unique thing is... honestly very little progress from the existing baseline. If amps are just "metamagic that you spend focus points on" it's even worse. We already have three different classes worth of casters with access to the occult list, and they're all more interesting than that.

Basically, "slotted caster" doesn't get to count as "interesting" anymore, any more than a martial-standard set of proficiencies does. If anything, going from 2 slots to 3 or 4 makes them less interesting, not more. At least "you have the same levels of spell slots, but fewer" is something a bit different. Trying to figure out how to leverage this more limited resource pool is a somewhat different and therefore interesting challenge. The only real issue is that they need to give it more beef on the other side to balance things out and make the tradeoff worth it.

seconded


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I think the thing that you both are missing is that this gives the design team at Paizo the chance to really flex their muscles at creating a class that can bend their spells in different ways. For an example of how this could work, look at the Warp Space feat that the Psychic can already take. To my knowledge, this is not something that any class can do.This is how the class I suggested feels interesting. I have faith in Paizo that they can make this work, while pushing the game forward.

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Sanityfaerie wrote:
Basically, "slotted caster" doesn't get to count as "interesting" anymore, any more than a martial-standard set of proficiencies does. If anything, going from 2 slots to 3 or 4 makes them less interesting, not more. At least "you have the same levels of spell slots, but fewer" is something a bit different. Trying to figure out how to leverage this more limited resource pool is a somewhat different and therefore interesting challenge. The only real issue is that they need to give it more beef on the other side to balance things out and make the tradeoff worth it.

I've had this issue with almost all spellcasters in 2E and in Starfinder as well. Most of them don't have any interesting or unique class features beyond just casting spells. Most of them are just a focus spell, one circumstantial ability, and spellcasting. There are exceptions, of course.


Cyrad wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
Basically, "slotted caster" doesn't get to count as "interesting" anymore, any more than a martial-standard set of proficiencies does. If anything, going from 2 slots to 3 or 4 makes them less interesting, not more. At least "you have the same levels of spell slots, but fewer" is something a bit different. Trying to figure out how to leverage this more limited resource pool is a somewhat different and therefore interesting challenge. The only real issue is that they need to give it more beef on the other side to balance things out and make the tradeoff worth it.
I've had this issue with almost all spellcasters in 2E and in Starfinder as well. Most of them don't have any interesting or unique class features beyond just casting spells. Most of them are just a focus spell, one circumstantial ability, and spellcasting. There are exceptions, of course.

To me the issue arises out of the standardization of spell casting into four lists. At least in 1e a spell list was unique and thematic to the class, minor features added on top was satisfactory. Not phenomenal, but satisfactory. Now because all magic users of a given tradition use the exact same spell list the only thing that differentiates them is everything added on top. The psychic playtest really highlights this in that people want the amp component fleshed out or really there is no reason for the psychic to exist. Whether there is a reason to play the psychic over an occult sorcerer, or... The bard... Is going to be determined on the unique class features. It's why my engagement on these forums has been reading and occasionally talking about the Wizard and how to make it something special. But that is, this is, another topic

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