Playtest Analysis from a Careful Readthrough: the Thaumaturge.


Thaumaturge Class


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A total reimagining of the Occultist from 1e, I think this class immediately caught a bunch of eyes. A few things caught my eye and I wanted to sit down and do a complete and careful read-through of the class. These are my everything-thoughts; I wrote 'em up a week ago, but took a detour to do some mathanalysis of the Thaumaturge's damage which I'll share in a later post dedicated to the topic. While reading, the balance reference points seem to be Barbarian, Champion, and Precision Ranger.

(forgive the formatting, some of the nicer bits of BB code seem to not be working at the moment. Always hard to make a wall of text less... wall of texty.)

First Stop,

Quote:
The Chassis
  • Key Ability Score = Charisma: The flavor here is not immediately apparent (INT or WIS seem more reasonable at first glance) but it’s explained by the designers in this post. I’m satisfied with the explanation, but the class feature or “about you” blurb at the beginning could use a rewrite to address this.
    → The class is also possibly the most MAD class yet released; It’ll need STR or DEX as a martial for offense (being limited to an 16 to start), CON for survivability, INT/WIS are nice bonuses for Recall Knowledge, and CHA for its special recall knowledge and class DC. The ability to use CHA instead of INT/WIS goes a long way to lessen this burden; I wonder if another small concession should be made, or if this disparity is a balancing drawback (and if so, a critical lens towards “is that good design, when the rest of the game tried to get rid of that?”). If it can survive with purely STR/CON/CHA or DEX/CON/CHA, it should be in a good spot. But given you only get four ASIs as you level, there's no way to get KAS + Offense + all 3 saving throw abilities as you level.

  • HP = 8/Lv. Nothing Special. Typical class feature-heavy martial.

  • Save Proficiencies: Your PFRW start off as E/T/T/E, which is standard for a martial. The progression, however is inconsistent with other characters.
    → Will Progression is too fast. The class has an E-7-13 progression for Will saves, which is actually perfectly consistent for every **other** proficiency **except** for Will. Legendary Will saves have always been delayed compared to the other saving throws; Oracle+Bard+Investigator get Legendary @ 17th level. Monks have their unique progression that could get Legendary @ 15th level, at the cost of no progressing one saving throw.
    → The weaker save progression is faster than typical. Most classes follow a 5-9-17 progression, bumping a different saving throw up by 1 at each of those steps. Thaumaturge is at a 3-7-9 progression which, while accelerated, isn’t the worst offender (Druid @ 3-3-5 will forever confuse me).

  • Skill Proficiencies: With 4 granted skills and 2+INT skills on top of that, the total 6+INT is only behind Rogue in quantity of starting proficiencies. However, 1) the class relies on Recall Knowledge to function, and 2) the KAS is CHA, but these skills are INT and WIS. It’s a good balance to make sure it works without tipping the scales in any favor.

  • Weapon Proficiencies: As a Martial, it enjoys T-5-13 weapon proficiency, and weapon specialization @ 7 and 15. Notably, it does NOT get critical specializations without investing in the Weapon Implement. This puts it in the company of the Champion.

  • Armor Proficiencies: It gets a slightly accelerated T-11-19 armor proficiency, instead of the normal T-13-19 proficiency. The only other classes to get an accelerated non-legendary armor progression are the Fighter and the Ranger. It’s an interesting choice to have 8 HP + Ranger armor progression.

  • Class DC: Uses the DC-reliant progression to T-9-17, in the company of Monks, Rangers, and Alchemists who all rely heavily on the use of their Class DC. However, the class does not really *rely* on their class DC. It’s used for a counteract modifier for a single implement paragon power (@ 17th level), and a single class feat, “Pact of Fey Glamour”. The class should either conjure more uses for the Class DC (focus spells, etc.) or slow it down to the non-reliant T-11-19 progression. Is the difference huge? No. But it does break the consistency of class progression principles previously implied.

Okay, whew a lot more detail than I think people were expecting on just the chassis.

Chassis tl;dr - Mostly seems normal, but the progression rates are consistently slightly accelerated compared to other classes, putting it stronger than expected overall. This is to spread out the power spikes given the design of the implement access (1, 5, 15) and implement mastery (7, 17). It really only leaves 3, 9, 11, 13, and 19 available, so you can see why they’d pick a 3-7-9 with accelerated Will @ 13. I think it’d be better to adjust the rate at which implement features are doled out to slow down at least the Will progression.

Okay, now on to the Class Features. The Thamaturge has two major class features: Esoterica and Implements. Esoterica are thematic baubles that you use to draw connections between a flawed creature and their metaphysical weakness, and Implements are objects of significance that you draw power from.

• Minor Class Feature: Dubious Knowledge: You get it as a bonus feat. If you already have it, you get Additional Lore instead. Cool, thematic, but not very well integrated into the other aspects of the class (see Find Flaws, below).

Quote:
Esoterica

Your Esoterica are a collection of baubles similar to spell components in use and function. You’ll have a pouch of them on your person, but the specifics are generally glossed over and they just meet the requirements for things. Esoterica also has two class actions associated with it: ♦Find Flaws, and ♦Esoteric Antithesis.

  • Find Flaws♦: Once per round, you search for the weaknesses of a single target creature (either seen or the subject of an Investigation exploration activity). Recall Knowledge using the normal skill, but CHA in place of INT or WIS to learn about it’s weaknesses. The main focus is to enable you to use the Esoteric Antithesis♦ action; in addition to the normal recall knowledge benefits, a CS or S lets you benefit from EA as a non-action, while a Failure forces you to use EA♦ as a second action. It also gives you focused information on the defenses of the creature (highest weakness on a S, all Weaknesses, Resistances, and Immunities on a success). I do have some thoughts on its design:

    → What’s the point of having Dubious Knowledge if this is providing the additional context for the abilities? There’s no “is this a critical success or a failure” uncertainty, since the two results are modified to have wildly different effects. And getting uncertain information doesn’t play into the class. As we’ll see in the design of Esoteric Antithesis below, the player doesn’t make any choices regarding this uncertainty, so getting erroneous information doesn’t provide much help.

    → I enjoy that the penalty for failure is not “you’re locked out of your thing, keep trying”; it’s “you get taxed an additional action”. This provides a meaningful penalty without getting caught in a trap where you’re stuck without it because you keep rolling poorly.

    → The basic design as a Ranger-analogue for "single action tax per opponent" is sound in design, but doesn't feel in-place from the player's end.

  • Esoteric Antithesis♦: Similar to a Ranger’s Hunt Prey, you use the Esoterica you’ve collected to modify your Strikes against the target to trigger their weaknesses. The ability provides a power floor, setting a minimum Weakness to your strikes of `2+[Level]/2` (either creating a custom weakness or using a more powerful existing one). This benefit lasts indefinitely against a single foe, but ends the moment you use Find Flaws again.

    → Current design sidesteps issues of the class’s identity not applying to broad swaths of creatures that simply lack Weaknesses to trigger, ensuring consistency.

    Order of Operations. Weaknesses are applied AFTER the damage dealt has been calculated, which means that this damage is NOT applied on a critical hit. This will likely be a central balancing point for the class. This results in significant damage on a hit, but lower-than-expected damage on a crit. This works out to be +70% damage on a crit instead of the typical +100% in practice.

    → I’m not sure that I like the “always on all your strikes” design. The flavor as-described seems like it should be a “this creature’s weak to X, this bit of esoterica exploits weakness X, so using the bauble should either work or not work”. Like, if you place the broken chain on the tyrant, as in the example, why should the weakness only be triggered by your attacks? Or if you coat the blade in a silver powder, why wouldn’t it work for anyone using the silver-coated weapon against the weak-to-silver creature? Or why wouldn’t that silver-infused attack affect the second weak-to-silver creature right next to it?
    →→ This could be a flavor text fix (“you’re using personal magic to infuse your strikes with the substance of the esoterica keyed to the psyche of that specific creature”), or a mechanical change (“You interact to apply the esoterica to a weapon. This benefit lasts until you Find Flaws or Interact to apply a different esoterica to a weapon.”). But as it stands, the function doesn’t follow what I’m getting from the lore.

    → There may be alternate ways to word the “use an existing weakness unless it’s not strong enough and then create a custom weakness” thing. An example that springs to mind is “your Strikes against that creature gain the esoterica trait or one damage type trait of your choice; this causes your Strikes to trigger Weaknesses to that trait.” And moving “The creature gains Weakness to your Esoterica equal to 2 + Half your level to damage with the esoterica trait” directly into the Find Flaws action....This allows the same weapon modification to be applied to multiple creatures, at the cost of an action tax in guesswork at the beginning. I suppose that this means that the Strikes could trigger multiple Weaknesses (Slashing + Silver, for example), which is not intended, so maybe this isn’t the ideal wording, but just some thoughts.

    → Because the ability “triggers weaknesses” but doesn’t change its current type, how does it interact with, say, a creature that had “Resistance 5 slashing, Weakness 5 silver”? Does it also count as the old type, so it’d apply BOTH the resistance and the slashing?

    → I’m surprised (disappointed?) that the Dubious Knowledge included in the class doesn’t come into play here. I would have expected a design that incorporated it better. Like, “when you use Esoteric Antithesis, you declare a damage type that you know or suspect the enemy to have. Your Strikes trigger that Weakness.” Add in a line like “You can Interact with your esoterica to change the damage type that your Esoteric Antithesis applies to”, and then Dubious Knowledge manifests naturally in the class; its action tax comes from “Oh, I learned it’s Weak to X and Y from my Recall Knowledge, I’ll try X. Huh, not working. Okay, Interact and try the other one.
    →→ Even if this specific implementation is not included, I think that given how much Dubious Knowledge *should* come into play, a sentence or two giving suggestions on how the authors imagine it being used in play (“the GM tells you two specific resistances the creature has and their values, one of which is real, and one is false”) might help give it a place in the class, because as it stands it’s just kind of… floating there.

    → Runs into the odd flavor situation of “drastically increases damage vs. creatures with weak/metaphysical-only weaknesses, but gains no power when fighting creatures with an actual weakness that’d be classically exploited. (Werewolves vs. Silver cannot be exploited any more than a metaphysical weakness, so if the weakness is easily accessible by others (Silvered/Mithral weapons or Cold Iron weapons, for example) it kinda feels like “what am I doing?”. Not sure if there’s a balanced solution this is.

    → I do wonder if there’s a way to make this a little more intuitive. Like, instead of the whole “triggers weaknesses of X type with a custom ‘2+[Level/2]’ damage if higher”, if the ability just added a single point of damage of the weaknesses damage type, and the bonus damage was simply `+[Level/2]`, it’d be virtually the same damage and just triggered those weaknesses normally, it’d be essentially the same, right? But a bit more obvious how it works. You could even tie this into Implement’s Empowerment below, and make that increase this bonus typed damage from 1→{2,4,6,8} in place of it’s current benefit.

Synthesizing the above thoughts: Synthesizing all of the above thoughts, it seems to me that a design more like

Find Flaws♦: Your Esoterica can be added to your weapons to make them trigger Weaknesses. When you Find Flaws, choose a damage trait, such as [slashing], [silver], or [lawful]. You Interact with a weapon you're holding to add Esoterica to it, making Strikes with the weapon deal 1 point of damage of that type. This benefit lasts until you Interact with your Esoterica again to apply to a new damage trait or a new weapon.

And then

Esoteric Antithesis♦: You use your Esoterica to exploit a metaphysical weakness in the nature of a creature you Found Flaws in. You Interact with your Esoterica and use it to modify a held weapon to trigger a Weakness in the creature's very Nature. The creature gains a custom weakness to your Esoterica equal to half your level. If the creature already had any Weaknesses, this instead modifies the creature's highest Weakness to the new value, if higher. This benefit lasts until you Interact with your Esoterica again.

This design makes a bit more sense on the lore-level (this weapon is silvered, now it's effective against weak-to-silver creatures, and I could give it to another ally to use since it's the Weapon, not me), and the action design is tweaked to be a bit more sound, IMO. Find Flaws♦ deals +1 damage of the type you choose, which in turn can trigger a Weakness. It takes no extra action if you guessed correctly, but if you failed your Recall Knowledge check, then Dubious Knowledge creates an action tax in the form of "guessing among the true and untrue Weaknesses". These guesses are handled simply in the form of using a single Interact action to apply your Esoterica to your weapon. This level of effectiveness ONLY applies to the creature's existing weaknesses: you get the small benefit with just the one action, and a bigger benefit from using the second action on Esoteric Antithesis.

Esoteric Antithesis♦ is now separated from Find Flaws♦ as the "specifically dealing with Metaphysical Weaknesses" action. The flavor is more clear, as is the reason why it only applies to one creature. Now it's a single action tax that you can take only if you need it. Its effective value is now "1+Level/2" instead of "2+Level/2", but that "1" now doubles on a crit instead of the "2" not doubling, so it's more like 1.5 in terms of a damage comparison. Pretty close, but much simpler to understand since each part is logically separated. This also makes the design of a multiclass easier to balance, as you can give multiclassed Thaumaturges Find Flaws+Esoterica to deal 1 point of typed damage, but not access to metaphysical weaknesses.

Alright, next section:

Quote:
Implements

Your Implements are your second major class feautre. They're items of Significance whose power you channel for various benefits. These are essentially your subclass choice for the class, determining the special abilities you get as you level. You start with one Implement (gaining more @ 5th and 15th), and as you level you’ll increase the power of implements (@ 7th and 17th, through three power levels: Initiate, Adept, Paragon) ending with a total of 3 Implements with a final power of Initiate, Adept, Adept, or Initiate, Initiate, Paragon. It’s important to note that Implements must be HELD to gain their benefits, not simply worn.

  • Implement's Empowerment: Provides an untyped bonus damage while holding implements. This starts at +2 @ level 1, and increases to +4 @ 3rd, +6 @ 11th, +8 @ 19th. In conjunction with the Esoteric Antithesis, that’s a total of +4 damage at level 1, and +20 damage at level 20, requiring only a single action per foe to access this damage. While the flat numbers are much higher than anything else – including the Giant Instinct Barbarian, whose entire schtick is “I deal tons of damage”, it’s important to consider them in context. A full analysis of damage comparison will be done later, so focusing on this ability in particular:

    → Because the class requires Implements to be HELD to gain their benefits, Thamaturges are blocked from gaining the benefits of either 2-Handed Weapons or 1-Handed + Free Hand fighting styles (weapon + shield, weapon + athletics, weapon + item). This means that, to fight in combat, the Thamaturge is essentially locked into a 2H fighting style with only a 1H weapon. This ability closes that gap. The +2 damage is approximately the average damage increase from a 1H weapon (1d6, 1d8) to a 2H weapon (1d10, 1d12). The bonuses @ 3rd, 11th, and 19th are approximately equal to the levels you’re expected to get your striking runes (4, 12, 19), meaning you keep the damage on track with a 2H weapon. Some thoughts on this design:

    → → Given its similarity to Somatic spell components, I believe that this ability should follow similar rules to the component substitution rules: you can choose add the [manipulate] trait to your Strikes to get bonus damage. The downside is that this now risks triggering reactions for [manipulate], and is subject to disruption and action loss appropriate to the action (such as Grappled’s flat check for manipulate actions). This change would allow you to keep all the flavor components (such as holding weapon implement + trace with free hand) with consistency across systems.

    → → The ability as written can be used without holding an implement at all.

    Quote:
    When you Strike, you can trace mystic patterns with an implement you’re holding **or a free hand** to empower the Strike.
    → → → Which violates the flavor of the abilty (“the power of your implement[..] flows into your weapon or fist”) -- It should require an implement being held (but not requiring the implement hand to perform the somatic component) – as well as the mechanical foundation of the bonus damage (locking the player into a 2H fighting style with a 1H weapon). If players can still receive the full utility of having a completely free hand (using a shield, item, athletics checks, etc.), then I do not think that they are entitled to this free scaling damage on top of the Esoteric Antithesis damage. Especially since this means that players can get 2H-level damage on Agile 1H weapon, or effectively increase the damage of a Two-Handed trait weapon with a Fighter dip into beyond where it should go, or freely reload ranged weapons that can be fired in one hand.

→ → Again, synthesizing these thoughts, I think a more cohesive design would be

While you are holding one of your implements implement, you can add a [somatic] component to your Strike, giving it the [manipulate] trait as you gesture occult patterns to empower your Esoterica. Strikes dealing bonus damage from your Esoterica that you modify in this weay deal 2 additional damage of your chosen trait instead of 1. This increases to 4 @ 3rd, 6 @ 11th, and 8 @ 19th. You cannot trace these patterns with a hand that you're using to Strike.

This ties it into the class a bit better: it's enhancing the bonus damage from your esoterica rather than just generic damage, while closing some of the questions I raised. It shouldn't affect the math (other than being eaten by Resistances if you failed your Recall Knowledge to Find Flaws and chose a bad damage trait), although the total numbers are now slightly lower (1+[Lv/2]+1/3/5/7 vs. 2+[lv/2]+2/4/6/8), but numbers can be easily tweaked on the back end. I just chose numbers that were consistent with other parts of the class's design and in the right ballpark.

Okay, the actual implements now:

  • The Amulet: The Defensive choice, providing you with what’s essentially a Champion’s Reaction while holding the implement in hand.

  • Initiate Benefit: Provides a reaction (Amulet’s Abeyance ↻) that gives Resistance = 2+Level vs the triggering strike against you or an ally within 15 feet. This is notably nearly the full power of the Champion’s reaction, only missing the bonus effect deterrent (make a Strike, Enfeebled 2, grant an ally a free Save/Escape attempt). My immediate concern is “this seems to toe into the Champion’s unique thing too much”. Like, “here’s this way to protect my friends” is the class’s core identity as a defensive power house. I don’t think that this kind of identity dilution is good for the health of the game, and that a different approach is warranted (or just a number reduction, like `2+[Level/2]` to match your Esoteric Anathema so that your power from the same source has different effects. Maybe make it a Resistance vs. the triggering damage of that value instead. Especially since the next benefit…

  • Adept Benefit: The Ally that benefitted from your Amulet’s Abeyance ↻ gains Resistance 5 (↑ to 10 @ 15th level) until the start of your next turn. A lingering defensive benefit to protect you from more than just that one attack. If you look at these numbers (5@5th, 10@15th) they almost perfectly match the progression of the Esoteric Anathema (4 @ 5th, and 9 @ 15th). I think that if this ability were modified so that the initiate benefit provided Resistance to that attack equal to the amount of Weakness your Esoteric Antithesis provides (`2+[Level/2]`) and the Adept benefit caused it the Resistance to last until the start of your next turn, it’d be a lot more wholistic.

    → → In addition, if the Initiate benefit required you to declare a damage trait and provided resistance to that specific trait, you’d give the Champion reaction a niche leg up on the Amulet’s Abeyance↻ AND provide another connection to that Dubious Knowledge skill, as the player would have to learn what type of damage the attacks are doing (although it should be obvious most of the time).

  • Paragon Benefit: The Amulet’s Abeyance ↻ now protects all allies within 15ft of you. Redeemer Champions get this same ability @ level 11 (raising concerns about diluting identity space, but this Is a 17th level near-capstone ability so it’s not a huge concern). If the triggering attack dealt multiple damage types, allies can declare what lingering resistance they keep individually.

    → → Not much more to comment on here, other than extending the comments on the design of Initiate and Adept and extrapolating it to here.

  • The Chalice: Drink deep, my friend, and heal. The Chalice is similar to a perpetual potion, providing you with the Drink from the Chalice♦ action, which can be used every round to provide some temporary hitpoints, or completely drained for an emergency heal… leaving the Chalice empty and unable to be used for 10 minutes.

  • Initiate Benefit: Provides the Chalice and the Drink from Chalice♦ action, which can be used in one of two ways on yourself or an ally:

    → 1) Sip: allowing you to sip for some temporary HP (`2+Level` T.HP) that lasts for 1 round.
    → 2) Drain: drink deeply of it to heal in an emergency (`3 x Level` HP)… leaving the chalice empty for 10 minutes. The 10-minute healing design also makes this serve as a pseudo-focus spell form of healing, similar to Lay on Hands (again, stepping on toes of Champion, but splitting the benefits between two implements eases that concern).

    → → The `2+Level` T.HP that lasts for 1 round appears to be the same value as the Amulet’s reaction, both mitigating the same amount of damage, but this is actually objectively weaker. It takes an Action rather than a reaction, requires you to guess when you’ll need it in advance, and the current design of Amulet’s Abeyance is resistance to ALL damage, so it gets extra mileage out of attacks of multiple damage types. I think that the Chalice’s numbers are well-designed, providing similar value to the Champion’s Reaction but in a completely different format and theme, making it not feel like it’s stepping on the toes. I think that Leaving the Chalice sip as `+2+Level` THP and lowering the Amulet’s Abeyance to `2+[Level/2]` Resistance vs. a single type (mirroring the Esoteric Antithesis value instead of the Champion's Reaction) sufficiently differentiates the two abilities from each other AND preserves the design space of the Champion’s Reaction.
    → → The Drain’s healing @ 3HP/level every 10 minutes mirrors the design of the Lay on Hands focus spell (6 HP/2 levels), without providing or costing a focus pool. In terms of out of combat healing and emergency in-combat healing, it seems fine. Not having an opportunity cost since it doesn’t cost a focus spell is a slight power boost. It doesn’t break anything on its own, but there’s a lot of parts of this class that are “this is slightly more powerful than we’d expect”, and a lot of small things are pushing together in the same direction. With the class as-of the playtest, I think this really pushes way too hard on the Champion’s niche (both Champions Reaction and Lay on Hands), but a small change can fix that (such as lowering the resistance of the Amulet’s Abeyance).
    → → The action is not fully clear on the consequences of Draining the chalice. Does Draining the chalice prevent anyone from Drinking from the Chalice, or only further Drains (can still Sip?). Also, the last sentence, “if 10 minutes pass without anyone drinking from the chalice”, should have the action capitalized so that it clearly refers to the action and not any other form of drinking that might involve the chalice – “without anyone Drinking From The Chalice”.

  • Adept Benefit: Fluids leaking from your body pour into the chalice and empower it with your life force. Your Drink From The Chalice action next turn is empowered if YOU had one of the following happens: 1) Took a Crit that dealt Salshing/Piercing damage, 2) Took Persistent Bleed damage. Essentially, turn your blood into bonus healing. **Sip** is improved to `CHA+Level`, and **Drain** is improved to `4 x Level`.
    → → Drain’s benefit seems fine, putting it in line with a 2-action Heal for 1 action at the cost of no range.
    → → Sip’s benefit is poorly designed. This only provides any benefit if the player has 16 CHA or greater. Since they’re level 5, you’d expect a minimum of 14 CHA (12 from KAS, +2 from level 5 ASI). But with how MAD the class is, I don’t think that this is guaranteed. Very few components use Class DC or Charisma, and most of those that do are Paragon-level benefits which are now excluded since they went for Adept in Chalice.
    → → → I think that it wouldn’t hurt to have it simply increase the temp HP by your CHA mod. For most characters, that’s +4 Healing instead of +2 Healing (2 → 4+Level), and that extra +2 difference is basically the average damage of persistent bleed damages (mostly 1d6ish), so the common trigger is balanced out.
    → → I love the flavor of this one. Really draws that religious imagery of supping the blood of the holy.

  • Paragon Benefit: Befitting a dedicated healer, this provides no bonus to in-combat healing, but Draining the Chalice helps clear conditions right quick: reduce most conditions with condition values by 1 (sickened, stupefied, etc.; Drained is only reduced 1/day), and attempt to counteract all points, diseases, and curses. Using Class DC – 10 as your counteract modifier also encourages raising Charisma.

    → → I think that this is largely good design, but surprised that it has no combat use. This may not be bad, but I think that if they invested into Paragon for this, it even a tiny boost to Sip (reduce Frightened by 1? Allow Sickened creatures to Sip from but not Drain the chalice?) would be valuable here.

  • The Lantern: See the paranormal for what they actually are: the Lantern is focused on illuminating the unknown and revealing the truth of things. Notably, unlike the other Implements, the Laterns benefits are entirely passive, bestowing its benefits on anything its light touches (within 20ft), but the short range means you’ll often need to stride into there.

  • Initiate Benefit: Counts as a magical [light] effect, providing bright light within 20ft, and dim light 20ft beyond that. Provides a +1 status bonus to you and allies within its bright light on 1) percepton checks against things in its bright light, and 2) on Recall Knowledge checks against creatures within its area of bright light. It also rolls the Secret Perception checks to find traps, hazards, haunts, and secrets that you pass within 20ft even without taking the Searching exploration activity.

    → → Since it’s a [light] effect, its interaction with [darkness] effects should be enumerated. It should have a counteract level of half your class level (which it’d be by default via counteract rules), and use your Class DC – 10 as its counteract modifier (more powerful than DC by level).

    → → * The Searching benefit is cool, but I do worry about the drastically increased speed with which you get the benefits of Searching. It’s not a half-speed ability but a fixed-speed ability (300ft/min, 150ft/min to guarantee you don’t trigger anything you find). Not even the 7th-level General Feat Expeditious Search does this.

  • Adept Benefit: The 20ft aura of bright light reveals invisible and ethereal creatures. They’re still concealed (DC 5 flat check), but not Hidden or Undetected, which is an awesome change. The short range is just shy of the 25ft stride distance, so these creatures can always stride right out of the range if they want to. I love the flavor of this, because it’s a niche benefit in practice but provides so many cool opportunities for storytelling and scene-setting.

  • Paragon Benefit: Any time an illusion or transmutation effect passes into your bright light, you get a free secret check to see through the illusion. Functions like a counteract check, but doesn’t actually counteract the effect in any way other than visually.

    → → This might have some clarity issues with spells whose benefits rely on visual components (does Illusory disguise still avoid the circumstance penalty for disguising yourself as a dissimilar creature even though it’s a purely visual effect?). It might need a “GM decides” sentence.

  • The Wand: Pew, pew. The Wand does flexible ranged magic to assail enemies from a distance. Quite a distance, honestly. This Implement is different from the other implements because it singularly focuses on dealing damage. Its attack action economy is going to be poor (since it’s ♦♦ like a spell). This also lets you keep up on damage independent of your physical stats, letting you focus on the mental ones if you wish.

    → → The choice of elements seems like it’s intended to play into the “fight around enemy weaknesses” game, but since this is a targeted spell and not a strike, it benefits from neither Esoteric Antithesis nor Implement’s Empowerment. You can’t change your element to trigger weaknesses, which also means that you don’t interact with the Dubious Knowledge skill feat again.

  • Initiate Benefit: Your Wand gives you a magical Fling Magic♦♦ activity that deals modest damage from a very respectable distance (80 ft! That’s almost as far as Ray of Frost modified by Reach metamagic. I’m definitely surprised to see this number). To start with choose an element and make an enemy take a basic reflex save against `1d4 + CHA` damage. It scales up by `+1d4` every odd level, like a cantrip.

    → → I’m trying to figure out why this is a unique non-Cast a Spell activity. It seems like this would make the most sense to be implemented (pardon the pun) as granted innate cantrip that requires you to be holding your wand implement to use, so that it’s as consistent with the rest of the similar-sounding rules as possible. Since it’s a saving throw, it’s easy to just say “Class DC” instead of “Trained [tradition] DC” like the normal rules, and you don’t have to worry about attacks. Maybe it’s because the [focus] spell component lets you draw/stow the component as a subordinate action? But the class gives you a free interaction to manipulate your implements at level 7, so this doesn’t seem like a huge deal.

    → → The element list is Fire, Cold, and Electricity. I’m curious as to why Acid isn’t there, or another trait like Poison possibly in its stead. A Rule of Threes thing? The lack of class feats to add other elements to your choice list here (such as aligned damage for divine-themed "reliquarian" thamaturges, or positive/negative damage for occult ones to deal with supernatural haunts and the like) seem like a glaring omission.

  • Adept Benefit: Increases the range of your Fling Magic to 120ft, and gives you a second damage trait (choose between one each time you Fling Magic). Also provides a bonus debuff depending on the element you choose (Fire = 1d10 Persistent damage, Cold = -10ft status penalty to Speeds, Electricity = flat-footed for 1 round).

    → → Fun addition, but nothing to write home about. Entirely damage based. I’d expect something to help *solve* magical problems, not just use magic to punch those problems from far away.

  • Paragon Benefit: Holy range, Batman. Range on Fling Magic is now 180 feet, and you can choose from any of the three elements each time you fling, and you’ve got the option to expand the spell into a 10ft burst with no action or damage costs. Definitely a powerful enough upgrade to be excited about, being able to send a mini-fireball as a cantrip, but I’m still disappointed that this is the pure damage option when magic has always been an expression of utility.

  • The Weapon: Stabby Stab. The weapon’s for someone who wants to be a full-on martial. You get a powered-up Attack of Opportunity and other beefy full-martial benefits that other Thamaturges have to live without. Interestingly, this is not about pure damage, but rather fills more of a battlefield control position by providing the opportunity attack more bonus effects.

    → → Does not grant proficiency in the weapon or limit the weapon choice, but you DO start the game with a non-magical implement. Does this mean that a player can bypass access requirements to get an [uncommon] or [rare] mundane weapon, or bypass the wealth allowances for a new level 1 PC (such as by buying a non-magical level 2+ weapon, as we might see with the Guns n Gears/Grand Bazaar books?). Just needs a "Level 0" sentence in the implements class feature earlier.

  • Initiate Benefit: Grants you the Implement’s Interruption↻ reaction. This is very similar to the Fighter’s Attack of Opportunity reaction, but it disrupts ANY triggering action on a crit, not just a [manipulate] action. The drawback is that it can only be used against a target you have an Esoteric Antithesis against. Also, at 5th level, you get the critical specialization effect of your Weapon Implement weapon (regardless of if you pick adept). These combined make you a full-fledged martial.

    → → Notably, unlike other AoO-type actions, this explicitly works while using a ranged weapon, but limits the range to 10ft (same as a reach weapon). Neat little addition.

    → → The major points of comparison here are the Fighter (@ level 1, [manipulate] only, with [concentrate] added @ a 10th level feat), Swashbuckler/Barbarian (@ level 6 via feat, [manipulate] only), and the closest match, the Ranger (@ level 4 via feat, also disrupts any triggering action on a crit, also requires an action tax in Hunt Prey to use). This puts it ahead of all of the competition without a significant drawback, pulling in its power at level 1. My major concern here is that other classes will want to take a Thamaturge Dedication to grab a single implement and that implement’s initiate power (based off of other dedication designs, that’ll be 2 feats @ 2nd and 4th), which is too early and too powerful for anybody else. Not even Fighter Dedications can get AoO until level 4 and that's one of their things.

    → → → Instead, I recommend having it only disrupt [manipulate] actions like AoO does at level 1, and then have the Adept Power improve the reaction to disrupt any triggering action (in addition to its current benefits below). This grants the power at around the same time and cost as what the Ranger has, and avoids outclassing the Fighter and softens the power of multiclassing into Thaumaturge.

    → → This also means that with that same (probably 4th level) feat, the Multiclassed Thaumaturge picks up Crit Specialization with that weapon (which might be an advanced or high-level weapon). Not ideal. Maybe rephrase that part to "when you gain the second implement class feature" instead of "5th level"?

  • Adept Benefit: Failing (but not CF) your Implement’s Interruption↻ deals 1 damage of your weapon’s type and triggers the target’s weaknesses per Esoteric Antithesis.

    → → This builds on the Thaumaturge’s mechanical theme of consistency and fits into his other class features and themes well. As above, I think that crit disrupting non-[manipulate] triggering actions should be moved here. You'll also note that this "one typed damage" design mirrors my suggested rework of FF/EA above.

  • Paragon Benefit: Implement’s Interruption↻ disrupts actions on a hit, rather than a crit. G&&$$@n, this is powerful and definitely a game-shaping ability a player would be excited to get.

Alright, this is getting kinda long, so thanks for sticking with it.

Quote:
Other Class Features

Small parts included in other class features I feel inclined to point out.

  • Implement Adept Lets you Interact to swap one implement for another implement as a free action immediately before taking an implement action that requires the new implement. A necessary addition for support implement juggling. However, there is some minutia about free actions that bothers me.

    → The language should be clarified to “next action with the [thaumaturge] trait granted by your implement” so that players can’t try to cheese “I’m striking with my implement, so this effectively works like Quick Draw and lets me draw + strike in one action”. This kinda leaves Lantern in the dust, but they get all their benefits without spending actions anyway so it should work out fine.

    → Is this a free action (that has the impossible to enforce “Requirement: your next action is a [thaumaturge] action granted by your implement”?) or a free reaction (triggered by using the [thaumaturge] action, and still subject to the “one reaction per trigger” rule)? If the latter, adjusting the language to use the word “trigger” somewhere will be immensely clarifying.

  • Thaumaturgic Expertise/Mastery: Grants a free skill increase to your choice of arcane/nature/occultism/religion.

  • Unlimited Esoterica: Lets you Find Flaws as a free action once per round, which in turn lets you Esoteric Antithesis as a free action on a success. Quite powerful, but it’s a 19th level capstone power so go for it fam.

    Quote:
    Class Feats

    Okay, now for the long part (lol). Going through the Class Feats individually. I've moved some feats that belong to "Families" of feats into groups specifically for them at the end, just so they're all in one place.

    [list]

  • Divine Disharmony♦ (1): A super-feint with some divine flavor. Unlike plain-old Feint, it 1) can be performed at range, not melee reach, 2) applies to all attack, not just melee attacks, and 2) lasts until S=end of turn, CS =end of next turn, instead of S = next attack, CS = end of next turn. I think that’s a little too much and the S should only be until next attack. However. This being slightly overtuned plays into the damage calculations of this class, as the lowered crit damage makes each +1 less valuable than it'd be on other classes.

  • Esoteric Lore(1): an Everything-Lore skill that increases to Expert when you get Legendary in A/N/O/R. It seems a little strange to have this as a 1st level class feat when the entire Enigma Muse Bard subclass has >80% of its subclass power budget on granting this feature. I think that this should be, at a minimum, moved back to a 2nd level class feat so that people trying to get dedications have to make a choice.

  • Familiar (1): Neat, yay.

  • Haunt Cunning (1): Niche benefits vs haunts. Totally fine. Good synergy with Lantern.

  • Root to Life♦ or ♦♦(1): Similar to Administer First Aid♦♦, it auto-stabilizes a creature AND lowers the DC for Persistent damage.

  • Call Implement(2): Teleports your implement to you from within 1 mile. Neat ability, prevents you from getting SoL because it got yoinked.

  • Esoteric Warden(2): Find Flaws = +1[s] AC on S and +2[s]AC on CS vs. next attack. 1/day/creature. Direct analogy to Ranger’s Monster Warden, except it applies in a S instead of a CS, and is the much more valuable status bonus instead of a circumstance bonus. It’s probably fine, but just another member in the theme of “consistently slightly better than competing options”.

  • Draw Warding Circle(4): Very cool, but not clear how it’s supposed to work in practice. Since you don’t define “entry OR escape” – it does both – the only way for this to work is to have the creature appear there via dimensional travel (teleportation, summoning, calling ritual), or to draw it around a creature that’s already there (in which case why does it need to be contained already?).

    → The former fits with the lore but is rarely useful outside of the specific calling rituals that already have these means built into them. The latter requires you to have the creature incapacitated in some way for 1 minute, and then is subject to the creature attempting to Stride out of the circle three times a round for as many tries as it takes to escape. Even if the DC is high enough that they only succeed on a nat20, this ward will last 7 rounds on average (21 attempts) if they’re determined to escape. So it takes longer to write the circle around the creature than it does to escape, so whatever that first means was is objectively superior.

    → This ability would function from a restriction on repeated attempts. Something like “after 3 failures, you cannot attempt this Will save again for 10 minutes” (or 1 hour, or whatever) would fit into the rule of threes. Even the modest change of making this a “Force Open” or “Escape” action, using your Will Save DC instead of your Athletics/Acrobatics modifier (or simply giving the attempt to escape the Attack trait) will do an effective job at slowing down attempts to escape.

    → Alternatively, the ability to change the shape of the line (a half circle, a line, etc.) would allow creatures to be affected by it without relying on a means that already has a built-in solution to what this feat offers.

  • One More Activation(4): 1/day, activate an Invested item with a frequency of “once per day or more”. Seems fun, but might want some clarifying language. “A frequency of once or more per day” would remove any confusion about if “once per 10 minutes” was considered “more” than “once per day”. Also RAW it’s not clear if this would help with Wands, since the Frequency of Wands are “once per day plus overcharge”. RAI, I imagine, is now “twice per day, plus overcharge after that”, but Overcharge is rigidly defined as “after the spell is cast from the wand for the day”, so overcharge might trigger RAW anyway without an overriding statement.

  • Thaumaturgic Ritualist(4): Gives you access to 4 uncommon rituals, with a +2[c] bonus on primary checks for rituals. I was initially worried that this’d give [common] access to [uncommon] rituals, but the feat itself has the [uncommon] trait and no **access** line, so it’s necessarily GM fiat if this is allowed, making sure the GM can control what uncommon rituals the player accesses.

  • Turn Away Misfortune↻ (4): Reaction to cancel out a misfortune effect. Since this has a [Fortune] trait, it means you can’t use it to protect a [fortune] roll that someone’s trying to cancel out with a [misfortune] effect. With no Frequency, this seems pretty good and solidifies the Thaumaturge’s identity as “Consistency King”.

  • Handy Esoterica(6): Prescient Planner and Prescient Consumable all-in-one, with an action reduction. Identical to the Investigator/Rogue feat at the same level, with the addition of the [esoterica] trait.

  • Rule of Three ♦(6): Oh man, this is a fun one. Action tax yourself over 3 rounds to ramp up your accuracy. After the third utterance, enjoy a net +4 accuracy (+2[s] on ATK, -2[c] AC). Since Thaumaturges don’t crit the same as others, that net +4 isn’t as powerful as it might appear. From the math below, that’s an ~`4x0.05x0.7` = `0.14` = 15% increase in average damage, at the cost of losing two actions, which is honestly a balanced tradeoff. Let the player’s feel awesome if they’re fighting an enemy that can survive 3 rounds of focus from the party.

  • Know-It-All(8): Effectively turns a Recall Knowledge S to a CS, and makes a CS provide even more benefits, but must be worded this way to avoid adding unintentional power to Find Flaws. Good feat.

  • Sympathetic Weakness (8): Allows your Esoteric Antithesis to apply to any creature subject to the same antithesis. I think it needs to be made more clear what “no other effect” means; the feat is reasonably clear but I think players will still get confused: This feat seems to NOT apply the Esoteric Antithesis’ improved weakness (the 2+Lv/2), so if a creature natively has Weakness 2 and your EA would apply a Weakness 5, the Sympathetic Weakness is still only triggering the Weakness 2.

    → Adjusting the example to use a minion that had a lower weakness, like Weakness 5, and specifying that you dealt 5 damage instead of 6 (or 2 instead of 5 from my previous example) would clear up this potential confusion, I believe.

    → Incorporating my design for the FF/EA would make this feat obsolete, which means that this feat could be redesigned to be "share the EA benefits to an identical creature" or scrapped.

  • Share Antithesis ♦ (10): Interact to apply your Esoterica Antithesis to a single ally, who gains the full benefit of your class feature. Can only have one ally improved at a time.

    → If you're considering my suggested changes above, this would essentially be "You can have Esoterica applied to two weapons at a time, instead of one".

  • Thaumaturge’s Investiture (10): Gains the Incredible Investiture feat, but the bonuses get bigger the more CHA you have (10→12 @ CHA 16; 12→14 @ CHA 18, 14→16 @ CHA 20, 16→18 @ CHA 22, 18→20 @ CHA 24). CHA 18 is a reasonable value (14 at CHA creation + 2 boosts from ASIs at 5 and 10), and the full benefit for Thaumaturges that go all-in on CHA is nice. Hard to anticipate if it nudges balance, but given that the two highest states are so far away (and CHA 24 requiring 18 CHA to begin with, which’ll be balanced by compromises elsewhere), I doubt it breaks anything.

  • Twin Weakness ♦♦ (10): A two-action strike that triggers the weakness in addition to your strike’s damage (which triggers the weakness). Essentially, double-weakness trigger, with guaranteed damage on a Failure. I think the language could be clarified a little bit, definitely took me two or three reads to make sure I understood it right.

  • Quick Circle (12): Draw a Warding Circle as a 3-action activity rather thana 1-minute activity. The Cost vs. Reward for containment is now much higher, but I still think it doesn’t fundamentally address the issues of Draw a Warding Circle.

  • Thaumaturge’s Demesne (12): Get a 200sq.ft plot of land to call your own, and automatic protect it with several rituals (Private Sanctum = appears covers with a fog, impossible to sense or scry inside from outside; Unseen Custodians = 3 permanent unseen servants that act autonomously as directly; Elemental Sentinel = Wisp alters you to intruders and communicates telepathically if you’re on the same planet). The rituals autoheighten as you level, and it appears you cannot change your demesne without retraining the feat.

  • Esoteric Reflexes (14): Gain an additional reaction that can only be used for your implements’ granted reactions. Level is at the same pace as Champion’s additional reaction (14) and slower than the Fighter’s additional reaction (10). Probably where it should be.

  • Shared Warding (14): Esoteric Warden’s AC bonus also applies to all allies within 30 ft. Level 14 is about the right level for “share call benefits with allies with no action cost” compared to similar classes like Ranger.

  • Implausible Esoterica (16): Unlimited (?) uses of the Prescient Planner feat (up to its money limit), and you can draw them as a single action instead of two. Additionally 5 free consumables (of IL ≤ Your Level – 6) per day.

  • Implement’s Flight (16): Just whole-ass get an entire fly speed equal to your land speed while holding an implement. While this level is consistent with other levels for permanent fly speeds, it comes at much lower cost (Winged Ancestries, like Tengu and Strix, grant a time-limited flight with a 9th-level ancestry feat, and full fly speeds are reserved for 13th level ancestry feats that often have two prerequisites, taking a total of 3 ancestry feats). The power level and feat level are fine, but I think that this feat should have an additional prerequisite, like *Call Implement*.

  • Sever Magic♦♦ (16): Strike, and on a damaging hit counteract a single active spell on your target. Sounds fun, don’t see any immediate causes for concern.

  • Trespass Teleportation ↻ (16): Follow the subject of your Esoteric Antithesis when it teleports away from you. I don’t think there are any effects that might redirect teleportations in 2e yet, so GM fiat might be needed as spells get added in the future,but for now it seems to cover all expected edge cases. And since none of Tresspass Teleportation, Find Flaws, or Esoteric Antithesis specify “foe”, you can just study a friend who’s about to teleport to hop along for the ride.

  • Implement’s Assault ♦♦♦ (18): Strike all creatures within 30ft of you, with either a melee weapon or a ranged one with Reload 0. This seems objectively better than the Fighter/Ranger Impossible Volley feat in all aspects but range. This is a 30ft burst centered on you, Impossible Volley is a 10ft burst centered anywhere beyond your weapon’s volley range (30ft).

    → Note that you do not get your EA damage against anybody other than the foe you have applied EA to (unless you’ve got Sympathetic Weakness in play) – nothing changes here.

    → Amusingly, since the weapon is Released from your hand at the beginning of the attack, and only returns when it’s done, and the action only requires you to be Holding the weapon + an implement, you can use this with a 2H weapon and still get your Implement’s Empowerment damage. Not what they had in mind, but it’s a niche benefit at level 18. Let ‘em have it.

  • Intense Implement (18): Gain the Adept benefit for an implement that only has an Initiate benefit. This’ll let you end up with [Adept Adept Adept] or [Initiate Adept Paragon]. Good design.

  • Ubiquitous Antithesis (20): Like Share Antithesis, but your Esoteric Antithesis automatically affects ALL allies within 30ft. Entire party gets to enjoy the damage. And they put a limiter in to stop bag-of-rats style cheese.

  • Unlimited Demesne (20): Turns your Demesne into a mansion, and lets you call it from anywhere. Niche, fun, flavorful benefit. It might need some language regarding how the “conjuring forth” happens. Is this an extraplanar thing, like a minor demiplane, so there’s no interaction with the land that was previously in front of you? Etc.

  • Wonder Worker (20): Once per day, cast an 8th level (or lower) spell that takes 1,2, or 3 actions to cast (no reaction spells?) from a tradition associated with a skill you’re Legendary in. If you went all-in on knowledge skills, that’s three of ‘em. Pretty fun capstone ability. Nice nod to the origin of the class name.

Okay, now those feat Families.

The various Oath feats: Okay, these are cool as hell and possibly my favorite addition to the game. My only complaint is that they’re limited to the Thaumaturge. I hope we get an archetype that offers opportunities for these sorts of Oaths and building on our relationship with the Oath-granters.

  • Binding Oath (1): Gain a +1[c] bonus to a Request or Coerce by taking an oath, at the cost of not being able to act against the oath/break promises. Can be made once/day, but no limit to the total number of oaths you can have going at a time. Cool, flavorful, balanced, and edge cases already handled. I think it needs to clarify when you’re released from your oath (when fulfilled in some way?) and that you cannot take an Oath that conflicts with another Oath you’ve already taken.

  • Pact of Fey Glamour (4): Permanently change your appearance and gain a 1/day *illusory disguise* as a primal innate spell, at the cost of being required to grant *any* fey’s request for hospitality for up to 3 days and not being able to harm any creature to which you’ve offered hospitality (for how long? Let a guy crash on your couch for one night and you can’t harm him 20 years later) unless they harm you (you specifically, not even an ally, family member, or other creature you’re showing hospitality to?) first. Violating the pact just makes you lose the benefits until you atone.

  • Pact of Infernal Prowess (8): Once per day, reroll a crit failure as a free [fortune] action. You also automatically succeed at checks to Earn Income below your level (even -1); at the cost of your soul is consigned to Hell when you die, and you cannot be returned to life short of Miracle, and the devils can magically track you for 1 year. The only way out of this (can’t even retrain the feat!) is to journey into Hell and destroy the physical copy of the contract itself.

    → Dude. This is such a cool feat. It’s a story hook and a campaign arc all in one. It’s awesome as *hell*.

  • Pact of the Final Breath (12): Your maximum natural life span is doubled, and 1/day you regain +`Lv` HP when you’re reduced to 0 HP, remain conscious, and gain Fast Healing =`Lv/2` for 3 rounds. The cost is that you must show proper and formal respect for the dead, and must assist in cleansing all undead you come across (if not suicidal). Violating the pact reverts your life to your natural life span, possibly killing you. At least the psychopomps let you say goodbye first.

    Okay, next, the Familiar feat chain. Basically all the core feats of having a familiar, getting you a bunch of familiar abilities, at the same rate as as spellcaster.

  • Familiar (1): You get a familiar, same as any other caster, just without casting. Woo.

  • Enhanced Familiar (2): Get 4 Familiar abilities.

  • Incredible Familiar (8): 6 familiar abilities.

    The Talisman Feat Chain: A Feat chain based around the production of temporary daily talismans from your esoterica. Should be compared to the Talisman Dabbler Archetype. Despite the similarities, you’ll need to take the archetype separately, getting some redundant abilities. However, the pools of free talismans are separate, so they effectively add together.

  • Talisman Esoterica (2): Almost identical to the Talisman Dabbler archetype: two free talismans/day, and you know some formulae. Does not have the “affix talismans faster”
  • Elaborate Talisman Esoterica (8): 4 free Talismans per day, at the same level as the Talisman Dabbler.
  • Grand Talisman Esoterica (14): 6 free Talismans per day, at the same level as Talisman Dabbler

    The Scroll Feat ChainFeat Chain: A Feat chain based around the production of daily-use scrolls. Should be compared to the Scroll Trickster Archetype.

  • Scroll Thaumaturgy (1): Lets you Activate any scrolls, and use your class DC instead of scroll’s spell DC. Super fun, tons of opportunity w/ Scroll Trickster + Prescient Planner feats. I was expecting this to be a “Trick Magic Item Skill feat + additional side benefit” implementation, though.
  • Scroll Esoterica (6): Gain one temporary 1st level scroll each day. At 8th level, gain one temporary 2nd level scroll each day. Same benefit as the Scroll Trickster.
  • Elaborate Scroll Esoterica (12): Gain one temporary 3rd level scroll each day, and a 4th level scroll @ level 14, and a 5th level scroll at level 16, same as Scroll Trickster
  • Grand Scroll Esoterica (18): Gain a temporary 6th level scroll, and a temporary 7th level scroll @ 20th.

    Okay, for real this time. Finally the end. I hope that this provided some useful insight for the devs on what's good, what's got open questions, where some edge cases might be, and what might be a better direction.

  • Design Manager

    5 people marked this as a favorite.

    Thanks for the thorough analysis! Will take it all into account.


    Wow. Incredibly exhaustive and insightful. Your post really made my understand Implements and the Feat chain/suites clearly as akin to subclasses, so that alone made this useful for me.

    If your point about Class DC’s having so few interactions is correct then perhaps that is (currently intentional) and more will appear in the final release.


    Some specific Notes:

    Better save progression aligns with MAD. High will especially aligns with using CHA to do many things WIS normally does, while still enabling specialists.

    Many abilities rely heavily on class DC, like the Wand, therefore higher class DC is consistent. If anything, I feel it is weak enough that one will have *trouble* relying on things like the wand usefully. This seems to be a common perception as I have seen *0* playtest reports using the wand.

    Amulet Reaction only works against your EA target, therefore is more restricted and generally weaker than you rate it. Playtest data supports that it gets considerably less use than champion reactions.

    Warding Circle is a place of safety or a prison, or just a wall. Circles have powerful thematic significance, and it can fill many purposes as it prevents movement both ways.

    Overall an excellent analysis though

    Liberty's Edge

    Kuzcoburra wrote:
    Save Proficiencies: Your PFRW start off as E/T/T/E, which is standard for a martial. The progression, however is inconsistent with other characters.

    Save Proficiencies for Martials start with 2 at Expert and 1 at Trained, with almost always Perception at Expert.

    The Thaumaturge does not start standard for a Martial but standard for a Caster, which is below a Martial.

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