Why Find Flaws shouldn't be Recall Knowledge

Thaumaturge Class

We should make Find Flaws not be a Recall Knowledge (RK) check for a few reasons. Before we go into the reasons, I want to put forward what I think that looks like so I can explain how the change improves the Thaumaturge.

Find Flaws (1 action, Magical, Thaumaturge)
You call on the stories and symbols relevant to your foe, using the nuggets of truth to instill a new truth into your target. Using a skill that could be used to RK about the target, you roll using CHA instead of the usual ability modifier against the standard level-based DC of the target's level. This check has the effects of a RK as well as the following effects. (Actual effects unchanged)

So, why do I think this solves problems?

Firstly, by explicitly making this ability magical and flavored as "story-based truth-making", we can justify using Charisma because we are doing magic stuff in a similar vein to the Bard. We also move the mental justification from "How does Charisma help me recall information?" to "Why does magically evoking stories give me information?", which should be an easier justification. This also explains why the weakness you get from Esoteric Antithesis only applies to the target and not others of their kind.

Secondly, by making this not a RK check, we can avoid some skill feat interactions. Primarily, we can avoid making Unmistakable Lore a mandatory feat. I don't know if it would end up that way with the current version, but I am concerned it could (when combined with a generic lore skill you can't critically fail the current Find Flaws, which means you could ignore Charisma and skip advancing your knowledge skills). If we still want Dubious Knowledge to work with this, we can do that in the class ability that grants Dubious Knowledge.

Thirdly, by making this use the standard level-based DC, which RK uses most of the time, we avoid the DC modifiers that apply to RK that come from the rarity of the creature. This solves the issue of the Thaumaturge being bad at hunting Dracula, the Frankenstein Monster, and That Orc With A Name. This also gives the Thaumaturge a niche separate from the current RK classes, the Rogue and the Investigator, which it needs because it doesn't have the skill increases every level that those classes have. You may not be able to name every Fae, Golem, and Ooze you come across because you can't keep up every skill, but you can reveal that the Witch King's prophecy used lower case "man" instead of the commonly assumed upper case meaning.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

SKill increases and feats are a potential issue, but I think it specifically being a form of RK is really integral to the class' flavor and design.

An earlier thread on this topic…

An earlier thread on this topic…

Missed that thread when I checked earlier. Not much I can do about it now.

The old thread: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43ha3?Would-it-be-better-if-Find-Flaws-didnt

Hmm, not sure where my link went… LINK to earlier thread on same topic…

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