Solarian weapons, Thrown, and TechRev (can it leave your hand?)


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

So as the title says: its a question that seems straightforward, but its an argument that I've heard renewed with a certain Revelation.

The question is two abilities - the Throwing fusion, and TechRev's new Weapon Orbit revelation - and if they can be used on Solar/Lunar weapons, as the usage of either cause the weapon to leave your hands.

I believe that the answer is No. That this is a case of "The specific trumps the general" and that nothing, unless it specifically states otherwise, can counter the specific language of what applies to the Solar Manifestation, as this same reason is why Flare can't use Soulfire fusion.

If you're familiar with all of the above, feel free to give your thoughts here. The below is added details of what I've heard from other arguments, as well as more details:

In the core rulebook, under the solarian, and again in COM under the new manifestations, the following line is at the end of EVERY manifestation:

Quote:
Your solar {weapon|flare|shield} is automatically dismissed if it ever leaves your hand.

People state that the thrown fusion, since it modifies the crystal and allows it to do something it ordinarily couldn't, will allow the weapon to be thrown - but I think this would cause it to be dismissed, as the solar weapon's ability is more specific.

The new revelation, Weapon Orbit also uses very similar language as Thrown and Returning, with no exemption for Solar weapon. The body as below.

TechRev Pg 31 wrote:

Weapon Orbit

As a standard action, make a ranged attack with a melee weapon you're wielding against a target within 30 feet. If you hit, you add your Charisma modifier to the weapon's damage instead of adding your Strength modifier. At the end of your turn, the weapon returns to your hand unless you don't have a free hand, in which case the weapon lands in your square. If attuned or fully attuned, you can use this ability to perform a full attack with the melee weapon at range, but each attack must be made against a different target within range. These attacks can benefit from the flashing strikes class feature as though they were melee attacks.

This, along with the new Solar Battery revelation, appear to both be centered on alternate options for solarians - and notably Armor solarians. But people say it has to work with Solar/Lunar weapons because its a solarian ability. This I feel is a terrible argument, especially as it opens up an argument of allowing your charisma modifier from Soulfire to stack with Weapon Orbit's addition.

So I'd like to just have some community thoughts (or a push for a specific FAQ list about interactions)


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Starfinder Superscriber

I'd have to agree with you since Weapon Orbit doesn't stop the solar/lunar weapon from being dismissed upon leaving your hand, unless you can detach your hand somehow lol.


Food for thought... It never says the weapon leaves your hand or is thrown, just that it returns to it. A silly thing no doubt, but a technicality potentially worth looking at. It makes me wonder if something was lost in editing.


jrock9430 wrote:
I'd have to agree with you since Weapon Orbit doesn't stop the solar/lunar weapon from being dismissed upon leaving your hand, unless you can detach your hand somehow lol.

That sounds like a hilarious augmentation. Inspector gadgeteer arms: you can extend your arms out to 30', though after extension your arms have little strength they can grasp and manipulate objects like computers. If you use this with a thrown weapon, you can maintain your grip on that weapon as long as the attack targets a creature within 30'.


Automatically =/= immediately.

There is nothing that actually prevents it from working with either the thrown fusion or the new revelation.

The Weapon Orbit revelation says it allows you to make ranged attacks and then at the end of your turn the weapon returns to your hand. I don't see a reason you can't make your attacks, the weapon is dismissed at range, and then returns to your hand by reforming in your hand as part of the revelation.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
jrock9430 wrote:
I'd have to agree with you since Weapon Orbit doesn't stop the solar/lunar weapon from being dismissed upon leaving your hand, unless you can detach your hand somehow lol.

You know, there are video game and cartoon/anime characters that do so, and anacites should be able to do something like that with out much difficulty, fleshies could use cybernetics, etc. Hmmm.

https://cdn1.vectorstock.com/i/thumb-large/63/25/clinched-fist-on-chain-lib eration-and-freedom-vector-11786325.jpg


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Abilities do something.

Your interpretation has the ability do nothing. It doesn't underpower it, it doesn't make it niche, it makes it broken in the sense that it absolutely doesn't work.

Your interpretation is based on the rather arbitrary delineation of the solar weapon as the most specific, trumping the general usage of using a solar weapon with a particular revelation. That's... less than sensible. You always swing a solar weapon. you don't always use this revelation.

The revelation is by far the more specific option.

There is no guarantee the throwing fusion would work, but the revalation does. "Does the fusion designed to let you throw stuff work with the stellar mote that shuts off when it leaves your hand" is a question, "does the revelation that lets you throw your stellar mote let you throw your stellar mote" is self answering.


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Uh…it works with regular melee weapons. There are a few solarian builds that use a purchased/looted melee weapon rather than a solar weapon. This relevation is for them.


BigNorseWolf wrote:


"does the revelation that lets you throw your stellar mote let you throw your stellar mote" is self answering.

It's just not a question that has anything to do with this relevation, which doesn't mention solar motes, just melee weapons.


DOH. Forgot about non solar weapon solarions. My bad.

to be fair i thought paizo forgot about them too ow ow ow kidding ow ow ow...


C4M3R0N wrote:
Food for thought... It never says the weapon leaves your hand or is thrown, just that it returns to it. A silly thing no doubt, but a technicality potentially worth looking at. It makes me wonder if something was lost in editing.

Someone on discord was speculating that they may have been avoiding the word thrown to keep you from using your str mod to attack and instead making you use your dex mod, making it good for armor solarions.

Oddly enough, it makes it really good for Solar Flare solarions too. If someones within 30 feet you can clock them in the head with a flaming doshko using dex to attack and charisma to damage instead of your puny finger laser with dex to attack and nothing to damage.

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