Can a Magambyan Magus Spellstrike with a Scrollstaff?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Basically, the thread's title.

I know Striker's Scroll alows a Magus to attach a scroll to their weapon to Spellstrike with it.

The Scrollstaff seems to do the same thing, albeit with the Magus having to craft the scroll into the staff.

I was wondering if the rules on the Scrollstaff, that include allowing the caster to Cast a Spell from the imbued scroll would allow a Magus to use it with Spellstrike, since it includes the Cast a Spell activity?


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I was looking at those archetypes last night and wondered if a magus could use the Scroll within the scrollstaff as well as attach a scroll to this staff with the Striker's Scroll feat

Horizon Hunters

The scroll scribed onto a Scrollstaff functions like a normal scroll. Mechanically, you would just be holding the staff and the scroll at the same time. You would still be able to attach a scroll with Striker's Scroll, since the scrollstaff doesn't have any special Talisman limits.

However, you can not normally use Scrolls as part of a Spellstrike because you need to Activate a scroll, which isn't allowed by Spellstrike. Striker's Scroll has an explicit exemption to this.


Agreed with the Scrollstaff not giving you an exception to cheese your way to use other spells with Spellstrike, especially when there is a feat specifically for scrolls to let you do this.

Liberty's Edge

Activating a scroll (or a wand, or a staff) uses the Cast a spell activity, which is explicitly part of Spellstrike.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Activating a scroll (or a wand, or a staff) uses the Cast a spell activity, which is explicitly part of Spellstrike.

True it does, but I think the primary argument here might be that Cast a Spell is part of both Activate and Spellstrike, so while both parent actions let you cast a spell, you can't start one action and link it to the other.


Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Activating a scroll (or a wand, or a staff) uses the Cast a spell activity, which is explicitly part of Spellstrike.
True it does, but I think the primary argument here might be that Cast a Spell is part of both Activate and Spellstrike, so while both parent actions let you cast a spell, you can't start one action and link it to the other.

Right:

-Activate a scroll (et al) leads to Cast a Spell, cast spell
-Spellstrike leads to Cast a Spell, cast spell (carry on rest of Spellstrike)
If this is true (which IMO it is), then there's no room to slip an activation into the Spellstrike, and activating the scroll first would of course lead to casting before initiating the Spellstrike.

Liberty's Edge

I am similarly of the mind that Spellstrike can never be used with a Scroll of any type at all unless they have Strikers Scroll given how flatly the Feat is written. Just because Scrolls are Activated with the Cast a Spell Action/Activity doesn't mean you can replace the Cast a Spell Action/Activity within Spellstrike with any other Action/Activity that itself also uses the Cast a Spell rules.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

There's a certain logic to that, much like not making a Flurry of Blows as part of a Sudden Charge. Still, I might rule of cool allow it. Getting a scroll in hand is already tricky on the tight action economy of the Magus.

Liberty's Edge

Perhaps, and if anything I feel like the best clarification that I could hope for in regard to this is to clarify Spellstrike itself to make it clear if this is permitted.

As you say, rule of cool and all I think there is no real balance, thematic, flavor, or other reason why it shouldn't be allowed but my stance was merely that I believe the rules as they currently exist are suggestive that it is not allowed.

Simulated FAQ Button


Castilliano wrote:
Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Activating a scroll (or a wand, or a staff) uses the Cast a spell activity, which is explicitly part of Spellstrike.
True it does, but I think the primary argument here might be that Cast a Spell is part of both Activate and Spellstrike, so while both parent actions let you cast a spell, you can't start one action and link it to the other.

Right:

-Activate a scroll (et al) leads to Cast a Spell, cast spell
-Spellstrike leads to Cast a Spell, cast spell (carry on rest of Spellstrike)
If this is true (which IMO it is), then there's no room to slip an activation into the Spellstrike, and activating the scroll first would of course lead to casting before initiating the Spellstrike.

Activation of an Item via Cast a Spell activity is not the same as an actual Cast a Spell activity from a spell slot or Focus Spell that you possess, so that right off the bat doesn't work. Even if you argue that it does, then this also works with Magical Staves and Wands as well, and obviously it's not intended if you need a feat to do so with Scrolls, and Wands and Staves are far more powerful and reliable by comparison.

This is like saying you can just use the High/Long Jump action and follow up with a Strike to hit an enemy in the air when feats Sudden Leap and Flying Kick exist. If you could already do the ability without feats, it stands to reason that one of two possibilities come to pass:

1. The feat is meant to give you the ability to do something that you otherwise couldn't before. In the Sudden Leap/Flying Kick example, this gives you the ability to Jump/Leap and Strike before falling to the ground, and likewise not taking damage from the fall for doing so (so long as your fall distance is equal to or less than the jump distance). For the ability in question, Striker's Scroll lets you attach a Scroll to a weapon or Handwraps via the Attach a Talisman activity, which, when done, lets you utilize the Scroll as part of the Spellstrike ability. In both of these cases, they give you these abilities that were otherwise not possible to do prior to obtaining these feats.

2. The feat is a useless trap designed to make newbie/dumb players invest into it just for the Paizo developers with their hidden cameras watch the meltdowns and laugh at their misfortunes while they are in their breakroom/office. In the Sudden Leap/Flying Kick example, you could already Jump/Leap and Strike before falling to the ground, not taking damage for doing so. For Striker's Scroll, you could already use Scrolls with Spellstrike, without the Attach a Talisman activity. And the foolish players who don't know this will take the feats and get angry that they have to waste time retraining instead of earning income (and being behind on treasure compared to other players). Meanwhile, Mark Seifter is cackling with glee when the GM tells the player they wasted a feat on a useless trap option.

Based on your interpretation, the second option is clearly the correct one.


Darksol, who are you addressing?
Hopefully the first person, but you pressed Reply to me who's agreeing w/ the second person, and our interpretations match yours:
Casting a spell is a subordinate action of both activating an item (in these cases) & Spellstrike, so activating & Spellstrike cannot be combined. It's either/or.


Castilliano wrote:

Darksol, who are you addressing?

Hopefully the first person, but you pressed Reply to me who's agreeing w/ the second person, and our interpretations match yours:
Casting a spell is a subordinate action of both activating an item (in these cases) & Spellstrike, so activating & Spellstrike cannot be combined. It's either/or.

Whoops, your statement looked like you were agreeing with them instead of disagreeing. Mistakes were made, but I stand by the premise of my statements.

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