Spell slots and spells known vs. chassis


Psychic Class


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Several posts here, the discord, and reddit have noted that the class is too weak compared to Bard, occult Witch (not that equaling the Witch would be ok!), or occult Sorcerer given the fewer spell slots (vs Witch and Bard and especially Sorcerer) and spells known (vs Sorcerer, with more limited choice of spells vs Witch and Bard). It suffers even further against the Bard because of the chassis (HP, weapon/armor proficiencies).

But most of the discussion has been on how the cantrips/amps/psyche interactions need to be improved to make up this shortfall. I agree, but I'm not sure that's enough.

Do we need three spells per level as well as a boost to amped cantrips? I think so, or in the alternative we boost the chassis, with 8 HP, light armor, and eventually Master perception (which fits well with the inner eye revealing things to you).

Another option (that could coexist with either of the preceding improvements) is expanding spells known. At a minimum, I think they should have access to a class feat that grants additional spells known, such as the Loremaster Bard and Occult/Arcane Sorcerer have.

But a more interesting option might be to grant universal signature spells rather than increase the spell slots. When I saw the spell slot chart I had a moment of joy thinking it was going to be a spontaneous version of the flexible preparation archetype from SOM - it has the same spell slots, so surely it had either full heightening of all spells or the same spell collection mechanic.

Alas, no. (At least not yet.) But I think maximum flexibility of using your slots combined with your very few available might be a way to distinguish this class from its competitors, especially if more slots are off the table due to other improvements to the chassis and/or amps/cantrips.

If this is too much as a base ability, making it a feat in place of the similar but weaker Signature Spell Expansion (which sorcers also have access to in addition to a straight increase in spells known) would be an alternate approach.

Spells known are in a weird place for this class, because a lot of traditional psychic spells like Detect Thoughts and Mind Probe are not only uncommon and not necessarily available, they're almost unthinkable as an option given how few spells know you have. An ability or feat to grant access or knowledge of some of these specific spells (much like the Magus Studious Spells) would be another intersting option, especially as the class itself is already uncommon. Given that, why not give access to the mind reading/memory altering spells that are so thematic? If the GM doesn't like them he can not allow the entire class.


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I love the Psychic, but I fear becoming a PF2 Warlock that spams the same spells every turn. Either we should be able to upgrade more than just a few psi cantrips, or we should get more spell slots for versatility.


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I think 8hp + light armor would help the class a lot but it would go against what I think the devs want to do with the class.

I feel they want the psychic to be a conventional glass cannon caster. The problem is not the glass, is the cannon.

I think 2 spells per level would lead to a way more interesting class overall. The class just needs compensation for that.

IMO all psi cantrips should be slighly upgraded even when they are not amped and all subclasses should receive a combat cantrip. Then the amp should be way more powerful than it is right now. They are not only focus spells, but most of the reason the class looses one third of their spellcasting capabilities, make it count.

For example, TK being 1d8 per level always is not that strong honestly when you consider what the class looses. The Amp effect should be way stronger than that. even 1d12 would still be worse than Tempest Surge for being an attack roll instead of a save. Both cost a focus point, but Druids don't have 2 spells per level and have way better proficiencies, Psychic focus spells HAVE to be better.

Another thing the class needs IMO is a way to get more psi cantrips, both from other subclasses and new cantrips all together (shield should be a psi cantrip one way or another).

The last thing I think the class needs is better Unleash Psyques in general, they are too power neutral for the conditions they have and for taking most of them a feat slot.

Some examples of what I think could be done with the cantrips:

TK: 1d8 per level + mod base, as it is amped buth with twice the range and 1d8 +3 per level + mod for damage.
Daze: Exact same but with 1d8 instead of 1d6 base, Same amped as in the playtest but with d8 damage and stunned 1 on fail or crit fail.
Message: Honestly, the only one I would keep as it is, maybe better range in base form.
Guidance: Base effect would be the playtest amp version, amped would let the affected creature to roll twice and the spell has no cooldown.


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Ok so my understanding was that conscious mind granted both an additional spell slot and additional cantrips (2 in the text, or three in the footnote on the spells per day chart). The sorcerer had this issue in the playtest, and they fixed the chart in the actual release. This is just how spell repertoires work, right? Without taking a feat, there's no way to have more spells in your repertoire than you have slots. If the class feature "conscious mind" gives you an additional spell in your repertoire, it gives you and additional spell slot, right? Same as sorcerer bloodlines?

It makes no sense to give the psychic one more cantrip than any other caster, and one fewer spell slot than any non bounded caster.

Am I off here? Did I miss something the designers said about this?

Sincerely,
Confused


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Luigi Lizza wrote:
I love the Psychic, but I fear becoming a PF2 Warlock that spams the same spells every turn. Either we should be able to upgrade more than just a few psi cantrips, or we should get more spell slots for versatility.

Perhaps the psychic should be able to amp all cantrips but the subclass you take gives you a better/different amp you can apply. For example telekinetic projectile moves from d6 to d8 for everyone but d10 for distant grasp. I also think the various amps you can apply to different cantrips also has the potential to help make it feel less like the warlock who either spams eldritch blast or smacks dudes with a sword

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