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Psychic having a cantrip focus makes me hope that they have some feature to make Daze a viable cantrip option.
I just want to be able to have a mental attack as my basic combat option instead of having to telekinetically throw forks at people.
Ehh. I'm ready for psychic to be directly inferior to both occult sorc and bard and thaumaturge to be another skill-based martial with an inflexible action economy and/or punished for not having str/dex as the main stat. Maybe they'll get lucky and have something worth stealing with an archetype.Go full cynicism and prepare yourself for the psychic to be inferior to the occult witch.
Haven’t the majority of classes improved between playtest and final release ? Are there many exceptions?
Psychic having a cantrip focus makes me hope that they have some feature to make Daze a viable cantrip option.
I just want to be able to have a mental attack as my basic combat option instead of having to telekinetically throw forks at people.
What would make it viable for you ?
What would make it viable for you ?Psychic having a cantrip focus makes me hope that they have some feature to make Daze a viable cantrip option.
I just want to be able to have a mental attack as my basic combat option instead of having to telekinetically throw forks at people.
Having it deal around the same amount of damage as normal 1d4/level cantrips would be the obvious if boring solution.
Another option would be to let the Psychic inflict debuff effects on a failed save, to push in a more supporty direction.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
According to Erik's Keynote (and TMS's writeup), he said it was a Full Caster.
EDIT: Just double checked myself to be certain, he says it around 32 minutes into the Keynote. If you want to check yourself.
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Just realized that the Thaumaturge reminds me of the PF1 Arcanist for the mix of study and CHA that culminated in the notion of exploits. And how to get/trick magic into doing what you wanted.
Doing this with a non-Caster sounds even better.
I hope we will have subclasses based on specific specialties in cajoling the universe.
Expanding Talismans.
Masterfully Tricking Magic items.
Getting the most out of Implements.
Putting temporary weaknesses on enemies. Could also be reducing their resistances BTW.
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Gonna make a tiefling Thaumaturge/Gunslinger with improved unarmed attack and a giant revolver.
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It was mentioned in the other thread that Thaumaturge can get a familiar, I hope they can choose objects like a Baba Yaga witch
It would just be super cool to have a skull familiar or whatever
It was mentioned in the other thread that Thaumaturge can get a familiar, I hope they can choose objects like a Baba Yaga witch
It would just be super cool to have a skull familiar or whatever
But (arguably) the most useful familiar abilities as they currently stand are magic related - extra cantrips, slots , recalling a focus point
So what good would one be for them? Unless they can get out and present the implement allowing the character to keep their weapon and shield or two handed weapon prepped …
I keep talking about Dresden but he has Bob the Skull so that probably explains it
(As an aside if I have missed something good about familiars then can someone please advise …)
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Pherhaps Thaumaturge will get good Perception? Neither Reflex or Fortitude make much sense to me. I mean, given that all Martials have two saves, I suppose they'll have to have one. Of the two, I suppose I'd say Reflex, since they seem more akin to Rogues and Swashbucklers in that they use their mind/wit more than their body. But Perception could be explained as their ability to perceive that which others cannot.
You know, I have to wonder if both Thaumaturge and Psychic will get Legendary Will saves. The nature of psychic magic seems to make Psychics a good candidate for it, while Thaumaturge's whole forcing magic to do what they want without actually casting spells seems to fit as well.
Neither class has Wis as a core ability, so the odds of Legendary Will saves are pretty high. Look at the Bard, Oracle, and Investigator. Psychic is practically a lock, and Thaumaturge will either get it or Master and Master in a different save.
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Legendary willpower is kind of a staple of the themes and tropes of the source material. It was stated that John Constantine from Hellblazer, Harry Dresden from The Dresden Files, and Van Helsing from Dracula are at the core of the inspirations behind this class. Those characters are all characters that could be said to have very strong willpower, discipline, and a senses of self from what I know of them (I have not read everything these characters have appeared in, but what I have read is what I am basing my statement on). So, yeah, I think the Thaumaturge will get Legendary Will Saves.
That said, you raise a good point as far as my personal interest in kineticists goes. I've long said it's not the elemental theme I care about, but the mechanical ability to "cast" without spell slots. Depending on how this shakes out, I could be pretty satisfied.
Oh yeah. On first reading, I’m good.
I’ll pick it apart more thoroughly tonight when I’m home, but that wand implement is exactly what I want.
I'll have to really give thaumaturge a deeper read later but that cha primary stat means they'll be at a permanent -1 to hit for basically no benefit. Fortunately, their ability activates on a failure and can be preset on an enemy during exploration. Unfortunately, it takes two actions otherwise. Just on those I'm really wary of their overall combat effectiveness.
Psychic is looking pretty great aside from the embarrassing 2 spells per level.
Embarrassing?
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I'll have to really give thaumaturge a deeper read later but that cha primary stat means they'll be at a permanent -1 to hit for basically no benefit.
True, but by level 8 Weapon Implement Adepts (which I assume will be a common pick) get 12 bonus damage per strike (2 from Weapon Expertise, 4 from Implement's Empowerment, and 6 from the Antithesis) and deal 7 damage on a miss.
I'll have to really give thaumaturge a deeper read later but that cha primary stat means they'll be at a permanent -1 to hit for basically no benefit.True, but by level 8 Weapon Implement Adepts (which I assume will be a common pick) get 12 bonus damage per strike (2 from Weapon Expertise, 4 from Implement's Empowerment, and 6 from the Antithesis) and deal 7 damage on a miss.
The damage on a miss is only on the reaction strike. And the bonus damage is nice but as we've learned from barbarian (and inventor maybe its hazy), it's no substitute for being able to land hits especially vs higher level enemies.
Embarrassing?
A class billing itself as a full caster with 2 spells known per level and 2 spell slots per level is pretty bad yeah. Fortunately, the rest of psychic is pretty slick so I'm expecting it'll feel great to play compared to other casters in the early levels but won't be as fancy as others going into the middle and higher levels.
I'll have to really give thaumaturge a deeper read later but that cha primary stat means they'll be at a permanent -1 to hit for basically no benefit.True, but by level 8 Weapon Implement Adepts (which I assume will be a common pick) get 12 bonus damage per strike (2 from Weapon Expertise, 4 from Implement's Empowerment, and 6 from the Antithesis) and deal 7 damage on a miss.The damage on a miss is only on the reaction strike. And the bonus damage is nice but as we've learned from barbarian (and inventor maybe its hazy), it's no substitute for being able to land hits especially vs higher level enemies.
Embarrassing?A class billing itself as a full caster with 2 spells known per level and 2 spell slots per level is pretty bad yeah. Fortunately, the rest of psychic is pretty slick so I'm expecting it'll feel great to play compared to other casters in the early levels but won't be as fancy as others going into the middle and higher levels.
3 spells known per level. The Conscious Mind class feature gives you bonus spells in your repertoire.
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Barbarian have normal martial weapon progression and start with 18...
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Can I just say, thamaturge is bad at everything he does but can do so much. He is not as much damage as the rogue, his support is pretty bad compared to most casters, his trinkets aren't as good as the alchemist, his keyscore being Cha makes it so he can't hit as well as martials, his heal is bad, his reactions are worse than most... But he just has so many options. Like oh yeah I can cast bad spells of all traditions, I can get a super cantrip, I can attack pretty decently and disrupt pretty well.
It's just so much I am in love with every aspect of the class, it just encapsulates so much of the pf2 idea of not a tall tower but a wide one.
I think the biggest takeaway from this is that Paizo isn't likely to print an entirely new school of spells and that, by and large, the spells we have now are what we're going to have for this edition. I get that they aren't a WotC sized company but it does suck that we won't get large dumps of new spells the way we did in PF1.
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I think the biggest takeaway from this is that Paizo isn't likely to print an entirely new school of spells and that, by and large, the spells we have now are what we're going to have for this edition. I get that they aren't a WotC sized company but it does suck that we won't get large dumps of new spells the way we did in PF1.
We got 200 spells just a few days ago lol I think it was more spells than we had before SoM. But yeah outside of fixed spelllists from class arquetypes(elementalist showed us that) we will probably only get expansions to the 4 traditions. I mean that's good for me. I hate when a book comes out and only covers 2 classes for spells... Or when a spell has like 3 lines of classes beneath it to cover all classes.
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I think the biggest takeaway from this is that Paizo isn't likely to print an entirely new school of spells and that, by and large, the spells we have now are what we're going to have for this edition. I get that they aren't a WotC sized company but it does suck that we won't get large dumps of new spells the way we did in PF1.
Paizo's most recent rulebook just had 50 pages of new spells though?? Signifcantly more than were in Tasha's.
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I think the biggest takeaway from this is that Paizo isn't likely to print an entirely new school of spells and that, by and large, the spells we have now are what we're going to have for this edition. I get that they aren't a WotC sized company but it does suck that we won't get large dumps of new spells the way we did in PF1.Paizo's most recent rulebook just had 50 pages of new spells though?? Significantly more than were in Tasha's.
I'm not happy with 5e's rate of releasing new content either.
I want the old 3e days of a new book each month, plus magazines, plus adventures, and all the 3rd party you can handle. I know I won't get that, but I always liked the RAW ambition of 3e where they threw anything and everything at the wall and let players and GMs figure out what they needed. These days of carefully curated RPGs with a handful of books per year and everything nerfed into a homogenous paste just isn't for me.
This was a major cause of low quality products and power bloat. It nearly killed the industry.
I hope we never see its like again.
Did it now? Can you prove this or are we going to dredge up anecdotes about stores that cut back on their gaming material between 2000 and 2007?