Call to Action: #PAIZOACCOUNTABILITY needs your voice


Paizo General Discussion

101 to 150 of 554 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Selective outrage over personnel issues that one might not agree with, even if unjust, and then making demands of a company about that, is well, not going to get much accomplished, but by all means, air your gripes about the company on the company forums.

Is this the modern definition of being WOKE?

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey, has anyone thought to consider this TOTALLY new opinion I've got: businesses need money?!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Selective outrage over personnel issues that one might not agree with, even if unjust, and then making demands of a company about that, is well, not going to get much accomplished, but by all means, air your gripes about the company on the company forums.

Is this the modern definition of being WOKE?

If you want to make the company aware of your concerns and why you're considering not buying their product anymore, it seems a perfectly reasonable way to go about it.

I suppose you could just silently stop purchasing, but while that might do the same to the company in the long run, it's likely to have less influence on changing their behavior.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Selective outrage over personnel issues that one might not agree with, even if unjust, and then making demands of a company about that, is well, not going to get much accomplished, but by all means, air your gripes about the company on the company forums.

Is this the modern definition of being WOKE?

If you want to make the company aware of your concerns and why you're considering not buying their product anymore, it seems a perfectly reasonable way to go about it.

I suppose you could just silently stop purchasing, but while that might do the same to the company in the long run, it's likely to have less influence on changing their behavior.

Yes.

Looking at the CS board I have seen like 5 people cancelling their subs for what has taken place. That does not count those who may be emailing or not revealing their reasons for cancelling.

And I suspect a good number aren't saying why they cancelled in CS because CS staff don't need anything extra weighing on their minds right now.

Source: that's what I did.

Everyone is gonna do what is right for them. Let them do it in peace.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

We can subtract out anyone who gave a different reason, but we are left to guess about those who gave no reason.

But the Paizo folks can and should do a statistical analysis of the number of cancellations, compare it with prior numbers, and thus be able to evaluate just how much this firing hurt their bottom line. The best we outsiders can say is, "Yes, it probably has hurt them."

I must admit that I am not sure what I want to do here, as it seems I will never know enough for the right course of action to be clear to me -- although there are a few things that could happen that might let me infer whether anything has changed, for better or worse. But I would be very surprised if any of those things happen in the near future.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:

But the Paizo folks can and should do a statistical analysis of the number of cancellations, compare it with prior numbers, and thus be able to evaluate just how much this firing hurt their bottom line. The best we outsiders can say is, "Yes, it probably has hurt them."

Yeah, they should crunch the numbers on it to see if it is valuable to do better or not. We certainly wouldn’t want to presume that the rate of nearly one cancelation per hour was because of customer displeasure. What if it was an anomaly that caused them to open a ticket thread to cancel their subscription in somewhat uncommon numbers


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
dirtypool wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

But the Paizo folks can and should do a statistical analysis of the number of cancellations, compare it with prior numbers, and thus be able to evaluate just how much this firing hurt their bottom line. The best we outsiders can say is, "Yes, it probably has hurt them."

Yeah, they should crunch the numbers on it to see if it is valuable to do better or not.

If that number crunching causes them to realize that this is a worse crisis for them than any past situations referenced in these threads, then it might be a valuable wake-up call to them. They might realize that the "do better" that they did with prior situations may not be adequate this time around.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:


If that number crunching causes them to realize that this is a worse crisis for them than any past situations referenced in these threads, then it might be a valuable wake-up call to them. They might realize that the "do better" that they did with prior situations may not be adequate this time around.

I understand we’re a gaming hobby, but statistics is not required to resolve every issue. We’re in day five of user outrage on the site (something that usually cools off after two or three. And day four of a Twitter hashtag that is gaining and not losing support.

It’s obvious, without a statisticians approval that this situation is bad.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
dirtypool wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


If that number crunching causes them to realize that this is a worse crisis for them than any past situations referenced in these threads, then it might be a valuable wake-up call to them. They might realize that the "do better" that they did with prior situations may not be adequate this time around.

I understand we’re a gaming hobby, but statistics is not required to resolve every issue. We’re in day five of user outrage on the site (something that usually cools off after two or three. And day four of a Twitter hashtag that is gaining and not losing support.

It’s obvious, without a statisticians approval that this situation is bad.

Day 5 of a handful of users talking in circles on the internet and psyching each other up with stories about nazi symbols.

The vast majority of Paizo's customers likely has not heard about any of this and from the rest most do not care.

If the 5 or so subscription Paizo might lose due to this causes them problems then they were close the bankruptcy anyway and an above average flue season would have ended the company.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mergy wrote:
Hey, has anyone thought to consider this TOTALLY new opinion I've got: businesses need money?!

No one but you seems to be saying that. Anyone with a microgram of common sense knows any and all business need money.

Unless the boycott actually hurts them financially then nothing is going to change. It needs to be done in enough numbers to make a financial impact. Even then the current owners can simply throw up their hands and walk away and nothing gets done.

Feel free for to boycott, it could also be a small drop on a very big bucket and not do anything to Paizo.

Some here act is if they and they alone are the only ones keeping Paizo from closing down shop.

We will see in either the long or short term if anything gets done. I expect some here to be truly disappointed. Myself I would like to be wrong and will glad admit it yet see nothing changing imo.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Particular Jones wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Hey, has anyone thought to consider this TOTALLY new opinion I've got: businesses need money?!

No one but you seems to be saying that. Anyone with a microgram of common sense knows any and all business need money.

Unless the boycott actually hurts them financially then nothing is going to change. It needs to be done in enough numbers to make a financial impact. Even then the current owners can simply throw up their hands and walk away and nothing gets done.

Feel free for to boycott, it could also be a small drop on a very big bucket and not do anything to Paizo.

Some here act is if they and they alone are the only ones keeping Paizo from closing down shop.

We will see in either the long or short term if anything gets done. I expect some here to be truly disappointed. Myself I would like to be wrong and will glad admit it yet see nothing changing imo.

Likewise, nobody is actually saying they're the only ones keeping Paizo afloat, but they have had literally dozens of subscriptions canceled this week. That's not a drop in the bucket for books with these small of print runs.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ixal wrote:
dirtypool wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


If that number crunching causes them to realize that this is a worse crisis for them than any past situations referenced in these threads, then it might be a valuable wake-up call to them. They might realize that the "do better" that they did with prior situations may not be adequate this time around.

I understand we’re a gaming hobby, but statistics is not required to resolve every issue. We’re in day five of user outrage on the site (something that usually cools off after two or three. And day four of a Twitter hashtag that is gaining and not losing support.

It’s obvious, without a statisticians approval that this situation is bad.

Day 5 of a handful of users talking in circles on the internet and psyching each other up with stories about nazi symbols.

The vast majority of Paizo's customers likely has not heard about any of this and from the rest most do not care.

If the 5 or so subscription Paizo might lose due to this causes them problems then they were close the bankruptcy anyway and an above average flue season would have ended the company.

A. ALmost nobody is actually talking about the Nazi symbols anymore.

B. It takes five seconds to look at the Customer Service forum to see there are a LOT more than five subscription cancelations.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ixal wrote:


Day 5 of a handful of users talking in circles on the internet and psyching each other up with stories about nazi symbols.
The vast majority of Paizo's customers likely has not heard about any of this and from the rest most do not care.

If the 5 or so subscription Paizo might lose due to this causes them problems then they were close the bankruptcy anyway and an above average flue season would have ended the company.

Agreed and seconded.

You think those users were the ONLY one preventing Paizo from closing their door permanently.

Speaking for myself the majority don’t care imo and as long as they can keep playing the rpg is not even going to be a blip on their personal radar.

I would like to see something done yet unless the boycott is in sufficient numbers and hurts them financially nothing will change.

Expected to be told your an “ anomaly “ and wrong for thinking that way because well your not willing to agree to their way of thinking on the subject.?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Cori Marie wrote:
Likewise, nobody is actually saying they're the only ones keeping Paizo afloat, but they have had literally dozens of subscriptions canceled this week. That's not a drop in the bucket for books with these small of print runs.

Given how many are posting is sure does come off like they do think that way. With one of the threads essentially being “Paizo you better change and cater to my demands NOW or I’m taking my business elsewhere!”

Sorry some forum posters don’t get on free pass on acting like the equivalent of a mob with pitchforks and torches and out for blood. You can try and act like it’s not been happening except your not fooling anyone anymore.

I have been here the last couple of days and it is exactly what is happening. I can respect defending your fellow posters yet at the same time don’t insult our intelligence. You might want to give them a free pass on that kind of behaviour simply because your agree with them. For the most part I do to I don’t make excuses for that kind of behaviour though.

Dark Archive

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Are you quoting and replying to yourself? What am I looking at here.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Particular Jones wrote:
Particular Jones wrote:
Likewise, nobody is actually saying they're the only ones keeping Paizo afloat, but they have had literally dozens of subscriptions canceled this week. That's not a drop in the bucket for books with these small of print runs.

Given how many are posting is sure does come off like they do think that way. With one of the threads essentially being “Paizo you better change and cater to my demands NOW or I’m taking my business elsewhere!”

Sorry some forum posters don’t get on free pass on acting like the equivalent of a mob with pitchforks and torches and out for blood. You can try and act like it’s not been happening except your not fooling anyone anymore.

I have been here the last couple of days and it is exactly what is happening. I can respect defending your fellow posters yet at the same time don’t insult our intelligence. You might want to give them a free pass on that kind of behaviour simply because your agree with them. For the most part I do to I don’t make excuses for that kind of behaviour though.

I'm not "insulting your intelligence" just from a quick glance at the customer service forums, I counted 40 threads asking for subscription cancelations. That is significantly more than I have ever seen in such a short time with the exception of the conversion from 1E to 2E. Now some of these cite higher shipping and longer delivery times, but even more either cite recent events or proclaim solidarity with the struggling customer service team. This doesn't even account for the one we can't see that emailed instead of publicly posting. This is more than a "drop in the bucket" this is getting close to if not surpassing $1000 of ongoing revenue streams.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ixal wrote:


Day 5 of a handful of users talking in circles on the internet and psyching each other up with stories about nazi symbols.

Ah glad you could join us in the threads here on the Paizo forum about this issue - no conversation is really happening about the theosophy symbols here in the four active threads on this board.

“lxal” wrote:
If the 5 or so subscription Paizo might lose due to this causes them problems then they were close the bankruptcy anyway and an above average flue season would have ended the company.

41 on the Customer Service forum is more than 5.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Particular Jones wrote:


Expected to be told your an “ anomaly “ and wrong for thinking that way because well your not willing to agree to their way of thinking on the subject.?

The “anomaly” statement was in reference to the statement of never having heard of Sara Marie before on these forums. Given her presence, someone not having at least heard of her is an anomaly.

Contributor

119 people marked this as a favorite.

A lot of folks have said a lot on this topic, but I wanted to add my own two coppers to this particular topic.

I haven't been around in a while, so let me do a quick recap for those that might not know:

* I have been around in the Paizo community since 2005, and watched it grow from "just" magazine publishers to where it is now.
* I saw the shift from 3.5 to Pathfinder and beyond. (My name is in the "Special Thanks" section of the 1E Core Rulebook.)
* I have seen every angle of this business from ideation to creation to development to production to logistics to community to distribution. I know how all of the sausage gets made.
* I helped create PaizoCon, when it was just an unofficial gathering with 40 people in the basement of a hotel.
* I helped start the Wayfinder fanzine (still going strong)
* I was at the ground floor of Pathfinder Society's Season 0, and saw it grow to the enormous community that it is today.

I saw all of this *before* I got hired to work at Paizo in 2010, so when I tell you how heartbreaking the last 11 years has been, I mean it.

The most common thing I've heard from my fellow former Paizo employees is "I don't drink as much as I used to when I worked there." I want you to consider why that is. The other thing I see is how melancholy folks are. Working in games is f%+!ing awesome, I love seeing the unbridled creativity that people bring to bear, and their skills in getting a product into a customer's hands, from every department of a company. Yeah, it's a lot of work, and some days, any job is just that: a job. But the *passion* that people brought made a world of difference. Watching that passion die, watching it slowly get ground down under the working conditions and lack of improvement, still hurts.

For those that might say "That's just how it is": shut up. That doesn't make it right, or acceptable, or any form of apathetic acceptance of the status quo.

It has been said that Paizo's success has been in spite of the poor decisions that have been made. It hurts, because I know it's true. Folks take rightful pride in that work, but that is diminished in light of all the long hours and low wages. And you know what? For me, it wasn't even about my salary (for transparency, it was $36k/year when I left the community manager position in 2016), or the hours. It was wanting incremental improvements, demonstrating how it would help workflow, accountability, or actually being able to focus on the *community*, and not having those needs listened to or even prioritized on the schedule. I have likened that time as trying to make a gourmet meal with only a butter knife as a utensil. I can (and did) do it, but I shouldn't have *had* to.

It doesn't have to be like it is. It can be better. People *want* it to be better: employees, customers, partners, licensees, everybody. If employees didn't want it to be better, we wouldn't have stayed as long as we did (I include myself in this). But you should not lean on "you're lucky to be here" approach for employees, nor keep relying upon the community to bail you out of poor business decisions. If the truth about workplace situations would cast a poor light on the company, I really want you to consider why that is, and if your silent complicity has only exacerbated the abuse.

You (and by "you", I mean Paizo management) had a chance to correct things, and you didn't take it. Multiple times.

You keep being handed opportunities to change your outlook and your course, and you keep refusing to look at the map that is being handed to you. When are you going to look at the rest of your crew and realize that you all want to be going in the same direction: success. Success for everybody, not just a few, but it should never at the cost of your employees' health and wellbeing.

All of the official statements, press releases, emails, or social media posts are not going to *fix* this. This is not something that can or should be swept under the rug. Only action *can* fix this, but it can't be a one-and-done action. That's not how progress works. It has to be continual re-examination to make lasting change. What those actions are, though, none of us here can do it for you.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

I could be dead wrong, but the folks on the forums tend to be your most passionate of playerbase. They're your venture captains, GMs, word of mouth spreaders, and typically your biggest customers who purchase a great deal of your content. Furthermore Paizo encourages people to buy from them directly with the free PDF with the subscription. That means a great deal of their traffic is directly through this website so these threads typically garner a lot more attention than we might underestimate.

So each lost customer/canceled sub isn't just that sole person but can be an entire branch network of ttrpg players. Like when I canceled my sub after the Advanced Class Guide publishing fiasco, it was spiderwebbed to about 6 people.


17 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Thank you, Liz. Voices like yours are impossible to ignore.


21 people marked this as a favorite.

Honestly, I've been on these forums since I was, like, 11. Well over the majority of my lifespan. I remember standing next to a member of Paizo management in the elevator once at Paizocon and telling them how honored I was that they recognized my username. I have been pretty deep in things for a while, but honestly, I don't have much to offer this discussion except my complete support for the employees of Paizo and my complete disappointment in Paizo's leadership.

Liz Courts put it really well. I agree with her. It should never have gotten to this point.

Oh, I guess I'll say that as a general rule, anyone who says "you should be grateful to work here" either does not understand the meaning of "work" in this economy or wants to pretend they don't so they can save a buck on wages. Frankly, it kind of seems like the company could have spared some gratitude for the amazing employees and freelancers it was lucky enough to attract. Why do we only say "you should be grateful" to the people who do all the work?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Scavion wrote:

I could be dead wrong, but the folks on the forums tend to be your most passionate of playerbase. They're your venture captains, GMs, word of mouth spreaders, and typically your biggest customers who purchase a great deal of your content. Furthermore Paizo encourages people to buy from them directly with the free PDF with the subscription. That means a great deal of their traffic is directly through this website so these threads typically garner a lot more attention than we might underestimate.

So each lost customer/canceled sub isn't just that sole person but can be an entire branch network of ttrpg players. Like when I canceled my sub after the Advanced Class Guide publishing fiasco, it was spiderwebbed to about 6 people.

Not only is the network effect of bad marketing true, but the counts being seen on the customer service forums are the number of subscribers (customers), the direct financial impact is multiplied since many of them had multiple subscriptions, and they cancelled them all. Not saying it necessarily adds up to a giant amount, but it's larger than the 41 cancelling customers who used the forums to cancel.


13 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
Thank you, Liz. Voices like yours are impossible to ignore.

Co-signed.

Also, Liz: you are missed a great deal by many of us.

Silver Crusade

12 people marked this as a favorite.

*hugs the art Ninja*


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thunderspirit wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Thank you, Liz. Voices like yours are impossible to ignore.

Co-signed.

Also, Liz: you are missed a great deal by many of us.

Hear hear!

Contributor

37 people marked this as a favorite.

Hello all, I have been summoned by Dice Will Roll's truename magic invoking me in the first post.

I'm Jessica Redekop, as noted in the OP I play Xiadani on the Valiant actual play podcast. I'm also a Paizo freelancer -- I contributed to Bestiary 2 and 3, to the APG and GMG, to Ancestry Guide, and many others. I wrote PFS 2-16 Freedom for Wishes, which released earlier this year. This past weekend during Paizo's GenCon panels, my new AP was announced, too. I wrote the first volume of the Drift Crashers Starfinder AP.

I've made some social media posts about this issue, which is why and how my name ended up in the OP - I haven't been quiet about my support for the creative people at Paizo I work with as a freelancer. I love and support them all, and stand behind them in solidarity. I am also calling for accountability. I believe with my whole heart that this is important.


16 people marked this as a favorite.

Having been on somewhat of a self enforced hiatus from posting, but still keeping up with news/release info etc I feel a monumental shift currently. Never a giant fan of the corporate culture as evinced by Paizo, nor a fan of Golarion. But I enjoyed PF1 immensely, and though my play options for PF2 are pretty much PbP or run it myself for family I am coming to slowly understand the ruleset.

So I am not particularly surprised that a company mistreats its workers. Reading the offerings from Lissa Guillet, Liz Courts and most recently Mark Seifter’s piece on the cost of producing RPGs ( constantly battling the thought in the back of his mind that to actually obtain a decent wage, the truth for him and others at Paizo is to leave) well these are fairly common worker’s struggles the world over.

Liz Courts has been a bastion of professionalism, pleasantness and candour through all of my dealings with her as a 3rd Party Publisher. Her obvious dedication to the hobby, to Paizo and its community cannot be overstated. Her statements are exemplary and show beyond a shadow of a doubt that there have been serious shortcomings that were identified but not acted upon.

The responsibility for the actions of an owned company fall to the owner/s. Regardless of who was or was not making decisions for the welfare of the employees/all stakeholders, Lisa Stevens can recreate Paizo. In a fairer manner. Diversity and inclusion means every human, every animal, every tree. As the water cycle flows through you and flows through me. Each decision that impairs that cycle (printing, energy, labor, wages, rights, transportation, healthcare, mindfulness - ethics) impairs all stakeholders, internal and external.

Mark makes a point that RPGs cost less to buy per page than they did in 1974. And cites low wages as a factor that enables that. But so does outsourcing cheap printing, or any other of the myriad cost-cutting measures that almost every business engages in. And the argument is always “but we are a business”.

Yes you are, and how you run that business - the core ethic determines the choices you “force” yourself to make. I would pay more for a product if I knew the employees were paid more; and hope to pay a little less where middle managers were not necessary to endure happy workers from home could work when and how they want twice as productively; and more again when cradle to cradle printing in the local area in a non-toxic fashion employed yet more local people. And on ad nauseum.

Clearly there are steps that can be taken, but which ones will they be?

- Oceanshieldwolf/Morgan Boehringer

P.S. Hi to Umbral Reaver. Been a long time, glad to see you return.
P.P.S Also, Steve Geddes is such a stalwart of a customer I’m fairly certain he’s the only customer to have featured in a Paizo Blog pretty much for how much of a stalwart customer he is. And I’m pretty sure he cancelled all his subscriptions in the past few days. A patron of the business for 12 years. That is no small thing. And Steve is one of the most infuriatingly pleasant, kind, moderate human beings I know - he is taking what I believe is a considered socio-economic step, as are many others, to signal dissatisfaction with a product - the production of labor and its attendant processes. Not sure why I mention this, but if Steve Geddes is this worried then it is already well night time for change.

Liberty's Edge

15 people marked this as a favorite.

First I will talk as a long-time customer and fan : whatever some try to paint it, we are not trying to kill Paizo. We are trying to save it. To help it improve in all ways, including financial success and growing marketshare.

Second I will talk as a professional business transformation and strategy consultant. Ignoring the previous weak signals and putting the dust under the rug did not prevent things from blowing up the way it does now. Doing it again might quiet the environment for some time, until the next bigger wave, and the even bigger one after that, and so on until Paizo either improves or just dies. Because if you do not cure the causes, they will create the same consequences though on a bigger scale as you now witness.

Everything ends, even Paizo. Not giving this the attention it deserves will only accelerate the decay, while treating it honestly and thoroughly can only help the company survive and even thrive.

A word to the wise : when a company dies, the market, the competitors, quickly seize its vital assets : creators, customer service managers, IT people ...

But the top managers who killed their own business ? No thanks.


13 people marked this as a favorite.

I’ve been a customer of Paizo since the days when all they did was publish Dragon and Dungeon magazines - a continuation of subscriptions I’d held since the Eighties. I became a more involved member of the community as Pathfinder evolved from the ashes of 3.5. I was always proud of Paizo - they seemed to be the plucky underdog that was run by truly passionate fans. I often wished that my life situation was different and I could move to Seattle just to work for such a great company.

I have always been blown away by the amazing efforts of Paizo’s customer service, especially Sara Marie, who over the years resolved several issues for me in a very compassionate manner, and through her actions twice saved my custom for Paizo, providing them at least $5,000 in further purchases from me. I have worked CS before, I know what a cesspit it can be. The fact that Sara Marie reached out personally to deal with my issues meant the world to me as a customer.

These days I mostly stay in my PbP area. The last few years I have drifted away from being a ‘charter subscriber’ and having to buy everything that Paizo published. I was hoping to start again now that my financial situation is improving to the point where I could be spend gaming cash more freely. I really wanted to dive into Pathfinder 2nd Edition.

These recent revelations have made me rethink that hope. I know I am just one person, and not a very active customer at the moment, but I did purchase almost every book Paizo put out during the First Edition. I did that not just because they were great books (which they are) but because I thought they were a great company run by compassionate fellow gamers who were ‘doing well by doing good.’ I no longer feel that way.

So where does that leave Paizo? Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t have ready answers, I can only add my plea to the chorus: Do Better. I and my disposable income will be watching to see if there is any meaningful change.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Forest Guardian Press wrote:
Mark makes a point that RPGs cost less to buy per page than they did in 1974. And cites low wages as a factor that enables that. But so does outsourcing cheap printing, or any other of the myriad cost-cutting measures that almost every business engages in. And the argument is always “but we are a business”.

The question is what you can do about it in an environment like the U.S./worldwide economy. Liz stated that to her it wasn't even about "long hours and low wages", which I take that she (and others) suggested improvements that probably wouldn't even had put that much additional financial pressure on Paizo (if at all). And if that interpretation is correct, it really is a shame that those suggestions got ignored.

On the other hand, I really have a hard time imagining that low wages are because of the founders of Paizo being a bunch of greedy capitalists, and I'm not sure if they can do that much about it without risking massively loosing customers due to heavily increased prices. Expecting them to change an economic system that is fundamentally broken at an international, even worldwide level all by their own, is probably asking for too much. Maybe I'm too sceptical on that matter based on my own brief stint in the industry, but I think Mark is completely right. You either want to obtain a decent wage or you want to be create stuff within the RPG industry. if you want both, you probably have to be one of the lucky few working for WotC (at least I hope that WotC is paying better than the rest).

There's one thing I know for sure: every month, I'm still spending a decent amount of money on Paizo products that I fully know I'll probably never make any use of or even find the time to read thru. The only reason I can justify those spendings is because I want to support the rpg industry and especially the one publisher that has brought me so much joy over the years. Now to possibly have to reconsider if that publisher even deserves my support is really hard to stomach. As would be having to stop that support because of increasing prices. And I have no idea if there is an easy way out of this dilemma.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It’s also VERY easy to say just rebuild the company from the ground up.

It takes this thing called money to do so. The goodwill of the fan base too except goodwill is not an acceptable form of currency in banks.

I want to see them improve except the way some of you talk you make it sound so incredibly easy, strew free and more importantly making it look like it cost nothing or very little in terms of cash.

So perfect scenario you get what you want except it causes them to have to spend more money yo do so the cost ends up on the shoulders of the consumer. Certainly not the owners of the company why souls the absorb the cost of all the changes. Then the same people here claiming for change will then complain about the products costing more. Or do you think paying better wages was going to come out of the owner pocket.


11 people marked this as a favorite.
Particular Jones wrote:

It’s also VERY easy to say just rebuild the company from the ground up.

It takes this thing called money to do so. The goodwill of the fan base too except goodwill is not an acceptable form of currency in banks.

I want to see them improve except the way some of you talk you make it sound so incredibly easy, strew free and more importantly making it look like it cost nothing or very little in terms of cash.

So perfect scenario you get what you want except it causes them to have to spend more money yo do so the cost ends up on the shoulders of the consumer. Certainly not the owners of the company why souls the absorb the cost of all the changes. Then the same people here claiming for change will then complain about the products costing more. Or do you think paying better wages was going to come out of the owner pocket.

Using the human shield strategy is beneath contempt.

101 to 150 of 554 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / General Discussion / Call to Action: #PAIZOACCOUNTABILITY needs your voice All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.