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I am creating a character for PFS that is a kitsune whose eidolon looks like herself. The two act like twin sisters with a mild hivemind that perform coordinated dances and acts of mischief. The eidolon's unarmed attacks are flavored as stylish dance moves that conjure flames around herself.
I pictured the character functioning as a face and a skirmisher where the two of them flank enemies, debuff using Intimidate/Bon Mot/distractions, and bombard with foxfire when dealing with enemies at range.
But I'm not sure if the build accomplishes this. I'm concerned about lack of damage.
Maybe someone can give suggestions for improvements?
Statistics (Level 3)
- Ancestry Kitsune (Dark Fields)
- Background Entertainer
- Class Summoner (Fey Eidolon)
- STR 10; DEX 16; CON 12; INT 12; WIS 10; CHA 18
- Future boosts to Str, Dex, Con, and Cha
- Perception +7; Fort +8; Ref +8; Will +7
- AC 18; HP 41
- Melee +8 (Finesse); Ranged +8
- Skills
- Deception (Expert) +11;
- Diplomacy +9;
- Intimidation +9;
- Theater Lore +6;
- Nature +5;
- Performance +9;
- Society +6;
- Stealth +8
Eidolon (Fey, Level 3)
- STR 12; DEX 18; CON 12; INT 12; WIS 8; CHA 18
- Future boosts to Str, Dex, Con, and Cha
- Perception +6; Fort +8; Ref +9; Will +6
- AC 20;
- Attacks
- Primary +9 1d6+1 fire (deadly d8, finesse)
- Secondary +9 1d6+1 bludgeoning (agile, finesse)
- Skills
- Deception (Expert) +10;
- Diplomacy +8;
- Intimidation +8;
- Theater Lore +6;
- Nature +5;
- Performance +8;
- Society +6;
- Stealth +9
Ancestry, General, Skill Feats
- 1 Foxfire, Fascinating Performance
- 2 Bon Mot
- 3 Ancestral Paragon (Star Orb)
- 4 Distracting Performance
- 5 Myriad Forms
- 6 Lengthy Diversion
- 7 Toughness
- 8 Slippery Secrets
- 9 Fox Trick
- 10 Swift Sneak
Class Feats
- 1 Energy Heart (fire)
- 2 Ranged Combatant (fire)
- 4 Tandem Movement
- 6 Tandem Strike
- 8 Skilled Partner
- 10 Transpose
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I haven't looked at summoners closely enough to recommend anything, but just want to say that this is a really awesome character concept.
So from the jump you're going to run into issues trying to do physical anything with bad proficiency advancement on the summoner on top of being behind in your attacking stat. This is on top of your worsening will save over time as you increase your str.
In general, you'll find yourself being more effective with act together (cantrip + eidolon strike) over using foxfire or tandem strike. If you're set on doing so anyway, understand that your damage is going to be lower and more inconsistent by comparison and you'll be exposing your inferior AC to melee as well.
So from the jump you're going to run into issues trying to do physical anything with bad proficiency advancement on the summoner on top of being behind in your attacking stat. This is on top of your worsening will save over time as you increase your str.
In general, you'll find yourself being more effective with act together (cantrip + eidolon strike) over using foxfire or tandem strike. If you're set on doing so anyway, understand that your damage is going to be lower and more inconsistent by comparison and you'll be exposing your inferior AC to melee as well.
This is what I'm concerned about, but the concept feels undermined if I have the summoner far in the back. I can probably deal with the lower AC with defensive spells like mirror image or pick up light armor (and retrain it when I get expert in unarmored defense). You might be right about foxfire and Tandem Strike. Maybe it would be better if I got Eidolon's Opportunity instead?
This is what I'm concerned about, but the concept feels undermined if I have the summoner far in the back. I can probably deal with the lower AC with defensive spells like mirror image or pick up light armor (and retrain it when I get expert in unarmored defense). You might be right about foxfire and Tandem Strike. Maybe it would be better if I got Eidolon's Opportunity instead?
That's usually the best choice. The real question is making the summoner body work in melee. Given the dance motif I assume you're going with some kind of sword or reflavored club/battle fan meaning you don't have reach to help flank. This alsomeans casting in melee is going to run you into more AoOs the same as the magus. Could just accept it as the cost of flavor or run a reach weapon that meshes with your concept (naginata maybe?) and just not fight with it, strictly a dance prop.
I was considering a fighting fan or a maybe a bladed scarf, the latter might be the better choice for its reach. Bladed scarf's two-handedness shouldn't be an issue given that summoners can substitute their material components with somatic components.
A longspear would work, simply put those ribbons on it that kung fu dance performers do. Though by "work" I mean you'd be proficient, not that it'd be effective for more than flanking from a Step away.
I'm not sure about a longspear as the issue is that it becomes obvious which is the summoner and which is the eidolon. The eidolon is not going to be able to have a longspear
Depends on how you look at it. Sure the eidolon can't attack with it but nothing about wielding or flanking rules say you need to be able to attack with the weapon, just hold it in the proper number of hands and be able to act and make attacks at all. A stupid way to read it to be certain but there you go.
The bladed scarf is probably the most fitting for your motif and allows using dex for trips and disarms if so inclined (I think?). Skills still scale properly so that'll let you act in melee outside of cantrips as well if you're so inclined.
Other than that, maybe consider replacing ranged combatant or energy heart with advanced weaponry to give it trip and swap transpose with weighty knockdown. Fey has cantrips of its own and you still have foxfire if you're stuck purely at range though that's already less than ideal. Transpose I feel is better with unfetter for the long range swaps out of combat.
I'm not sure about a longspear as the issue is that it becomes obvious which is the summoner and which is the eidolon. The eidolon is not going to be able to have a longspear
Many Eidelon types, including Fey, can have unarmed attacks that appear as weapons. It would take the PC dropping their weapon and the enemy being intimately familiar w/ Eidelons for them to detect who's who (that is if one allows them to look THAT identical to begin with). And Jacobs has stated Summoners are sparse on Golarion if the game's set there.
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Separately, I think Eidelon's Wrath (though not until 6th) would help this build quite a bit. That's one solid AoE per battle (assuming the Eidelon has the Charisma to give it a competitive DC) and more at 12th and 18th if enjoying the usage.
That seems an intentional balance as there's not an Eidelon that's both good in combat and at casting (and many that do neither well!).
Hm, sadly, it seems finesse doesn't work with tripping and disarming because it specifies Strikes only. I think you're right that ranged combatant might be redundant when it has cantrips.
That seems an intentional balance as there's not an Eidelon that's both good in combat and at casting (and many that do neither well!).
I thought so at first, but the eidolon's spells use your statistics, not its own, for spell DCs and spell attacks.
How did you get deadly d8 on one of your attacks? Is that a feat option?
Hm, sadly, it seems finesse doesn't work with tripping and disarming because it specifies Strikes only. I think you're right that ranged combatant might be redundant when it has cantrips.
I thought so at first, but the eidolon's spells use your statistics, not its own, for spell DCs and spell attacks.
That seems an intentional balance as there's not an Eidelon that's both good in combat and at casting (and many that do neither well!).
I thought they used your proficiency, but their own Charisma?
There's a primary attack option for the eidolon that grants them a 1d6 attack with finesse and deadly d8.
The eidolon uses the summoner's spell attack and spell DC.
An eidolon normally can't Cast a Spell; however, some feats or abilities can grant it this capability. An eidolon that has spells also gains the Cast a Spell activity. It doesn't have its own spell DC or spell attack modifier; if it needs to Cast a Spell, it uses your spell DC and spell attack modifier. If you have eidolon link spells, your eidolon shares your focus pool to cast them, though it can't Refocus. Your eidolon can cast only spells that it gains from its own abilities. It can't cast your spells, nor can you cast spells it has.
I'm considering ditching the 2nd level Ranged Combatant feat and getting Rogue Dedication instead for its light armor proficiency, skill feat, and extra skills. And then Weapon Proficiency so she can wield a dancing scarf. But I'm not sure if this is a good idea.
I'm considering ditching the 2nd level Ranged Combatant feat and getting Rogue Dedication instead for its light armor proficiency, skill feat, and extra skills. And then Weapon Proficiency so she can wield a dancing scarf. But I'm not sure if this is a good idea.
The Summoner wielding a weapon is sub-par IMO, though that doesn't mean she can't have a cool scarf for dancing (or fan, whatever); just don't go into melee. Also, the Eidelon could have a faux dancing scarf weapon as their "unarmed" attack.
I was also thinking bladed scarf because it's reach, which would allow her to flank without being in an enemy's reach. A longspear might have been fine, but it feels a little too stabby for a dancer. But you have a good point, and burning a general feat for a weapon that I won't be attacking with is a significant cost.
You're right. The more I look at this, the more I realize that having both characters in melee isn't going to work out well. It would work better in a Strength-based summoner with the sentinel dedication, but that would go against the concept. So, the summoner will have to hang back and only flank when necessary or convenient to do so.
I'd consider a ranged eidolon build, but I'm not sure how I would boost the damage with the ranged unarmed attack beyond eidolon boost.