Can an Edilon do X?


Rules Discussion


What all can an edilon do?

Cann edilon Raise A Shield?
Can it wear a breastplate?

Can it be smaller than medium?
What sizes can it be?

Can it have 13 arms/hands?

Can it wear cloths?

Can it eat?
Does it need to eat?
How much?
Can it digest?
Can it vomit?
How much can it swallow?

Does it need to breath?
Can it sleep?

Can it be healed via mundane means?
Can I perform surgery on it?
Body modifications?
Could it be a rug?
How about a cape?

Can it be Disguised?
Camouflaged?
Can it be tattooed?
Painted?

Ok, plenty from me.
Mostly I want to know if it can use weapons, armor, shields, other equipment, and if so, do they go with them when they go poof?


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Nothing's stopping an eidolon from using nonmagical weapons and armor, since they aren't "magic items," but they'd be pretty terrible with them, since they don't get any proficiency with either, and you can already mold their appearance to be using a weapon or wearing armor in any case.

I don't see any reason an eidolon couldn't use a nonmagical shield and be just as effective with it as anyone else, though.

I'm not sure about items going poof with the eidolon, but my first reaction is to say that invested items would go poof with them. Otherwise we'd have lots of magical collars and things littering the ground when eidolons used them to scout far from their summoners, which seems kind of silly.

Horizon Hunters

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

An eidelon is the creature type you base it off of, so a Construct Eidolon has the Construct trait, and would normally be immune to everything Constructs are immune to if not for the Construct Heart ability (page 61). If your construct is a Dragon, it can be affected by anything a Dragon is affected by. And so on.

The Eidolon can look like anything you like, so you could have an Angel Eidolon with 6 pairs of arms that looks like some sort of Hindu deity, but mechanically they should only have two functional hands.

They can have a "weapon" as part of their form, you're able to choose the flavor of the unarmed attack and damage type. So you could have a Dragon with a Bite attack and a Claw as a secondary, or a Demon wielding a flaming Greatsword that does slashing damage as its "Unarmed Strike".

A lot of your questions venture into GM fiat. All Eidolons are "living" creatures according to the rules. It's up to the GM what that really means for them.


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Cordell Kintner wrote:
A lot of your questions venture into GM fiat. All Eidolons are "living" creatures according to the rules. It's up to the GM what that really means for them.

Lifesense

Source Bestiary pg. 343
"Lifesense allows a monster to sense the vital essence of living and undead creatures within the listed range. The sense can distinguish between the positive energy animating living creatures and the negative energy animating undead creatures, much as sight distinguishes colors."

Construct
Source Bestiary 2 pg. 346 2.0
A construct is an artificial creature empowered by a force other than necromancy. Constructs are often mindless; they are immune to bleed damage, death effects, disease, healing, necromancy, nonlethal attacks, poison, and the doomed, drained, fatigued, paralyzed, sickened, and unconscious conditions; and they may have Hardness based on the materials used to construct their bodies. Constructs are not living creatures, nor are they undead. When reduced to 0 Hit Points, a construct creature is destroyed.

So "living" pretty much means it's "positive energy animating" it and is healed by it: there is the exception of Negative Healing though.

Horizon Hunters

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I mean the whole "does it eat and breathe" thing. For example, even though a Construct Eidolon is "living" I wouldn't say it has to eat to sustain itself. Phantom Eidolons likely don't even have to breathe. And neither of the examples have blood so I would say they're also immune to bleeding.

All that is up to the GM however since it's not really explicitly stated anywhere.


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Cordell Kintner wrote:
I mean the whole "does it eat and breathe" thing.

Well, that's a question you can ask about the not living too. For instance, various undead feed. You can even make an argument that various robots can feed with their nanites.

Cordell Kintner wrote:
For example, even though a Construct Eidolon is "living" I wouldn't say it has to eat to sustain itself.

*shrug* I wouldn't complain if I had to feed mine some metal bit or some ore. Or whatever material they are built from.

Cordell Kintner wrote:
Phantom Eidolons likely don't even have to breathe. And neither of the examples have blood so I would say they're also immune to bleeding.

Do they have any traits that change their bodies? The playtest just had them as Ethereal and there is nothing there that means that wouldn't have to eat, breathe or bleed. "Ethereal creatures are natives of the Ethereal Plane. They can survive the basic environmental effects of the Ethereal Plane."

Cordell Kintner wrote:
All that is up to the GM however since it's not really explicitly stated anywhere.

Sure but that's nothing new. Conrasu have similar questions.

Silver Crusade

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I agree it's up to the GM. With the possible exception of bleed I think that I personally would take the tack of "if you're not specifically immune to something then you're affected by it regardless of what common sense might imply".

Certainly for PFS that is the reasonable position for the player to expect. Anything beyond that a GM chooses to give you should be seen as a nice extra.


I suggested a breastplate because the bonus exceeds the Trained bonus at first level.
Of course the Dex cap is only 1.
I don't know what Dex bonus to AC typical edilon have.

Either way it sounds like shield's or at least bucklers should be basic gear for most edilons.

Having your edilon carry and raise a tower shield seems like a pretty awesome way to get portable cover.

Only two functional hands so you could still have a Hecatoncheires for example...

A Shoggoth type could have limbs with stingers, claws, or mouths even, and still wield a shield in one or both of the psudopods that count as functions hands.

I suppose you could have a ball of light or a biblically accurate cherub, but depict their limbs as close range telekinesis.

Any character can make a unarmed attack,however feebly, and even use weapons they have no training in.
Edilon get special unarmed attacks, but are there other options like a cantrip, or one stronger attack instead of two smaller ones?

Can it look exactly like the summoner?
Since you can't hid your shared mark, you might as well confuse things even further.
Maybe play a Fey, with an identical Fey edilon, then summon more Fey?
Add illusory monster for another distraction?


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I think I might allow anything, but using shields ( mechanics) for the raise action.

Silver Crusade

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The Ronyon wrote:


I don't know what Dex bonus to AC typical edilon have.

Although there are exceptions the typical Eidolon has a choice of

Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, some combination of 10,12,8 averaging to 10

OR

Str 14, Dex 18. Con 16, some combination of 10,12,8 averaging to 10


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Ronyon wrote:
What all can an eidolon do?

Quite a bit! Almost as many things as it can't do.

The Ronyon wrote:
Can an eidolon Raise A Shield?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it wear a breastplate?

Yes! (But you probably wouldn't want it to.)

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it be smaller than medium?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
What sizes can it be?

Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, or Huge.

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it have 13 arms/hands?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it wear cloths?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it eat?

Yes! (If you want it to.)

The Ronyon wrote:
Does it need to eat?

Up to you and your GM! Not covered in the rules insofar as I'm aware.

The Ronyon wrote:
How much?

Depends.

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it digest?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it vomit?

Yes! (Otherwise the sickened condition would be just AWEFUL for eidolons.)

The Ronyon wrote:
How much can it swallow?

As much as is normal for a creature of its kind/size. ;)

The Ronyon wrote:
Does it need to breath?

I imagine the default answer is "Yes!" But maybe "No!" in some cases.

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it sleep?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it be healed via mundane means?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Can I perform surgery on it?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Body modifications?

Yes! (But they'd have to be mundane rather than magical I think.)

The Ronyon wrote:
Could it be a rug?

Yes! Complete with glowing icon!

The Ronyon wrote:
How about a cape?

Yes! Complete with your own personal sigil emblazoned upon it! (Note though that it might cost actions for it to ride you.)

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it be Disguised?

No! (Mostly.) Your glowing sigil makes it hard to take advantage of disguises.

The Ronyon wrote:
Camouflaged?

No! But sometimes Yes! Ask your GM. Some believe that glowing sigils can make hiding hard. In that case, it may be better to unmanifest the eidolon whenever the summoner is sneaking about.

The Ronyon wrote:
Can it be tattooed?

Yes! (Mundane tattoos at least.)

The Ronyon wrote:
Painted?

Yes!

The Ronyon wrote:
Ok, plenty from me.

Indeed!

The Ronyon wrote:
Mostly I want to know if it can use weapons, armor, shields, other equipment, and if so, do they go with them when they go poof?

Yes. I believe the gear would NOT go with them when unmanifested.

Liberty's Edge

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Here's a question I haven't seen an answer to yet: can an eidolon die?

Horizon Hunters

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
Here's a question I haven't seen an answer to yet: can an eidolon die?

No. You and the Eidolon have the same HP, so if you go to 0 it unmanifests. As far as I can see, most things that instantly kill a target say that you are "reduced to 0 HP and die". Since you and the Eidolon's life force is linked, any death effect targeting the Eidolon would likely also affect you in the same way.

Liberty's Edge

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None of that is in the rules though. The hp thing, sure, but what if your 17th level eidolon is in the area of a massacre spell and crit fails its Fort save? The death trait explicitly says that you can be killed without reducing your hp to 0. So what happens?


That's an interesting question. If a Eidolon 0 the HP you fall dying 1 or 2 or just unconscious? And instant kill spell affects the summoner? Because it shares same HP from summoner but not the status so I don't know how this works

Silver Crusade

While I agree its unclear the harsher rules interpretation is REALLY nasty for the summoner. As far as I can see, if the Eidolon dies it is never coming back. Which means that your character pretty much has to retire.

Combining disadvantage (essentially) with "no raise dead" just seems too harsh a ruling to me.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
pauljathome wrote:

While I agree its unclear the harsher rules interpretation is REALLY nasty for the summoner. As far as I can see, if the Eidolon dies it is never coming back. Which means that your character pretty much has to retire.

Combining disadvantage (essentially) with "no raise dead" just seems too harsh a ruling to me.

I don't think that's a likely outcome of the rules. Either the eidolon dies and then can just be remanifested, or the summoner dies in which case the point is moot.


Captain Morgan wrote:
pauljathome wrote:

While I agree its unclear the harsher rules interpretation is REALLY nasty for the summoner. As far as I can see, if the Eidolon dies it is never coming back. Which means that your character pretty much has to retire.

Combining disadvantage (essentially) with "no raise dead" just seems too harsh a ruling to me.

I don't think that's a likely outcome of the rules. Either the eidolon dies and then can just be remanifested, or the summoner dies in which case the point is moot.

That's how I see it as well. Your eidolon goes back to whatever plane or space it's supposed to go when it "dies," but in some respects it's more of an effect than an actual creature.


But what happen to summoner? After eidolon fall the summoner now has 0 HP. But the summoner is dying or just unconscious?

After healed can the summoner summon the eidolon again?

Grand Archive

This seems like GM decides territory.

Personally, I'd rule that the eidolon is unavailable to be summoned for 10 minutes.


Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:

This seems like GM decides territory.

Personally, I'd rule that the eidolon is unavailable to be summoned for 10 minutes.

I'd say a minute at most if you plan to do that, make it the same as Rage.

But I still think it's fine with just getting summoned again immediately. That's a whole turn and you're still on the ground if you do it. It's very likely going to be at least one round of getting your behind out of the fire, then maybe summoning your Eidolon. I don't think it's necessary to be any more punitive.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Captain Morgan wrote:
pauljathome wrote:

While I agree its unclear the harsher rules interpretation is REALLY nasty for the summoner. As far as I can see, if the Eidolon dies it is never coming back. Which means that your character pretty much has to retire.

Combining disadvantage (essentially) with "no raise dead" just seems too harsh a ruling to me.

I don't think that's a likely outcome of the rules. Either the eidolon dies and then can just be remanifested, or the summoner dies in which case the point is moot.

I think it's entirely reasonable to assume the eidolon is dead and gone until it can be resurrected.

(I don't personally assume this, I just think it's a reasonable possible stance/interpretation.)


Are you not taking too hard to kill Eidolon without passing trought dying states?

I don't know if this is maintained in final version but during playtest there's this paragraph in eidolon description:

Quote:
Your eidolon doesn’t have the summoned or minion trait, but the conduit that allows them to manifest is also a tether between you. They must remain within 100 feet of you at all times and can’t willingly go beyond that limit. If forced beyond this distance, or if you’re reduced to 0 Hit Points, your eidolon’s physical form dissolves, and you need to use Manifest Eidolon to manifest them again.

I don't know if this still works this way but as the eidolon shares the summoner hit points having eidolon having their hit point reduced to 0 is the same thing of the summoner hit points being reduced once both shares same pool. So eidolon will just dissolves and after healed the summoner can remanifest it.

My only question is about if summoner will ignore all lethal wound taken by eidolon and will only be unconscious or if the summoner enter in dying state?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
I think it's entirely reasonable to assume the eidolon is dead and gone until it can be resurrected.

There are absolutely no mechanical provisions for doing this though, so I'm not sure it's actually that reasonable.

Grand Archive

I'd give dying.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
None of that is in the rules though. The hp thing, sure, but what if your 17th level eidolon is in the area of a massacre spell and crit fails its Fort save? The death trait explicitly says that you can be killed without reducing your hp to 0. So what happens?

In cases like this, if the effect targeted just the Eidolon I would personally go with the Eidolon simply unmanifesting for the rest of the day or something. If it targeted both you and the Eidolon, you do the normal thing and roll both and take the worst, meaning if the Eidolon crit fails then you die.

Since you share HP with the Eidolon, you basically just take any damage that would target the Eidolon. So if a Death effect targets the Eidolon it's the same as if it targeted you, which is why they can still kill you if they reduce you to 0 HP.


YuriP wrote:
That's an interesting question. If a Eidolon 0 the HP you fall dying 1 or 2 or just unconscious? And instant kill spell affects the summoner? Because it shares same HP from summoner but not the status so I don't know how this works

Unless you take nonlethal damage, going to 0 hp gives the Dying condition. As you share hps, it looks like you go to Dying depending on the type of damage that brought you to 0, even if it's a bit weird.

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