Dear Paizo...


Paizo General Discussion

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TwilightKnight wrote:
Seisho wrote:
That is really crappy of the retailers imo.
Retailers have a very legitimate complaint. Not that Paizo is wrong for their methodology. The subscription model was inventive when it was started and certainly provides revenue stability, but let's face it, Paizo gets the bonus of offering a free PDF that the retailers cannot match. That means your FLGS has to either depend on the altruism of their customers or they have to discount from the retail to compete. Its why there is a very large number of retailers who dislike selling Paizo products and many refuse to stock them at all or only doing on-demand ordering. We can certainly argue about those actions being ideal or even reasonable, but we cannot dispute the fact that Paizo has set up a competitive relationship with the retails whom they want to distribute.

Pretty much. It highlights the problem Paizo face too - two cohorts of customer with mutually exclusive preferences.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I actually refrained from starting up subscriptions from Paizo because I wanted to get the products from my local game store. I gradually started up subscriptions as they became less reliable with certain product lines, then expanded to the rest of them when they closed down the last of their stores that I could get to (leaving only the one on a military base that was not accessible to the general public).


When I was unemployed for several years out of school and living on just my wife's income (she's great by the way), if we had the money for a new book I would buy from Amazon, because they were just cheaper (this was back in the pre-prime/free shipping over $30 days) or I would get the PDF from Paizo.com. Hard to beat $10 for a $40 book on a budget.

Now that I have had the good fortune to have a great job that pays me lots of money and I have disposable income, I subscribe and pay for the expensive shipping.

I get it that waiting a week can be frustrating, but remember you might be using this book for the next 5 to 10 years. In the scheme of things this just isn't that much time to wait.


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I have a much more sympathetic view of FLGSs.

I doubt anyone who doesn't already play Pathfinder is going to find how great it is on Amazon. Amazon serves regular customers well, but FLGSs can (and do) provide new players with a mechanism to experience Pathfinder for an hour before making an informed decision. Regulars spend $40 on Amazon instead of spending $50 at a FLGS; a new player spends $50 at a FLGS instead of spending $0.

I have zero qualms about buying Pathfinder books from a FLGS for $50 that I could get on Amazon for $40. I don't consider that $10 a loss, I consider it an investment in the long term future of the hobby.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Personally I have no problem with the delay (aside from general disappointment, but not anything bad on Paizo as it is out of their control). I also applaud their commitment to keeping people informed via Social Media.

That said, I do think it was a gross oversite and inexcusable for them not to have updated their product website with the delayed date sooner. I mean, updating it literally the day it said it was going to release was job bad all the way around. And it wasn't even that alone either. We keep pointing to the fact that their social media was keeping people updated and their posts, but their own blog post on 8/18 (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shs1?New-Cantrips-from-the-Pathf inder-Secrets-of#discuss) specifically said the book was coming out on the 25th even though they had already put out in other formats that it was delayed. That was nothing more than not reading what was written before posting.

I know Paizo is small and needs some white-knight types to defend them, however we shouldn't pretend there isn't validity in people like the OP's view that it was mishandled. Frankly, I believe it was mishandled and Paizo should be embarrassed by it and use that to change some of their strategic thinking. However, I do not believe it was an egregious offense either.

Paizo, I love you and you have provided many hours of joy in my life over the years and hopefully will continue to do so going forward. I just really would like you to get your website under control as I honestly think it is hurting your future bottom line.


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Invictus Fatum wrote:
And it wasn't even that alone either. We keep pointing to the fact that their social media was keeping people updated and their posts, but their own blog post on 8/18 (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shs1?New-Cantrips-from-the-Pathf inder-Secrets-of#discuss) specifically said the book was coming out on the 25th even though they had already put out in other formats that it was delayed. That was nothing more than not reading what was written before posting.

And in that thread, you brought it up. And Aaron Shanks' reply to you alludes to the answer to that.

Aaron Shanks wrote:
Indeed, that's one the dangers of writing our blogs earlier that we used to. Thanks for the sanity check.

So they actually write the blogs well beforehand, and then schedule it to go live without further input. They do this, in the case of the SoM Actual Play, upwards to a week before it goes live (it recaps the episode last week on the day the current session goes live, so a week max). Then, say, 2 days before the blog goes live, they have to make the very-last-minute decision to delay the August 25th products to September 1st. The person who wrote that blog is probably swamped with writing other blogs to schedule for later, and also might not be made aware of that last minute change, as it's possible they're working at home.

Aaron Shanks, who is directly in charge of the social media accounts, is able to try and get the word out on his end quickly. But Aaron is also NOT necessarily the one in charge of the blogs. And given how their software might work, the myriad of other responsibilities each company employee is juggling with, etc., it leads to a huge Domino effect of mistakes that were largely outside of their control, given COVID restrictions and their own infrastructure.

So once again, the Paizo folk did the best they could given the circumstances, and while the frustrations with the result is completely understandable, trying to boil down their mistakes as inexcusable and simplifying the problems they face day-to-day is once again, neither helpful as a critique nor even necessary.

Invictus Fatum wrote:
I know Paizo is small and needs some white-knight types to defend them, however we shouldn't pretend there isn't validity in people like the OP's view that it was mishandled. Frankly, I believe it was mishandled and Paizo should be embarrassed by it and use that to change some of their strategic thinking. However, I do not believe it was an egregious offense either.

On one hand, there's validity in people's complaints about the problems that come about. On the other hand, making assumptions of the solutions to those issues, painting the actions of the company as pure negligence, and treating Paizo like companies over 100x their size is frustrating in its own right. Correcting the circumstances that lead to this situation will take time, probably more employees than they can currently afford, a new website design that needs to work with legacy code that's 20+ years old, and for the shipping situation and COVID restrictions to improve drastically. Until all those aspects are done, please understand that Paizo IS a small company, take that in with the context of the entire situation, and please be patient and understanding of what they have to do.

Customer Service Representative

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Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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I haven't been able to read the thread yet, but wanted to address this part the part about the website release date changing last minute as that was user error on my part. When we realized the dates were going to change, I went to go update the changes and somehow either missed or missed saving the change to the retail release date field. No one realized that date was still set for Sept 25th until Tuesday, and even at that point I didn't realize that was the field from which the website took the date data (I thought it pulled it from a different part on the product's individual page).

I'm sorry for the confusion and frustration caused by this and thank everyone for their patience.

~sara

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