Twisting Tree Magus Gets *Magic Mouth*?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Every other studious spell granted to the magus is combat effective. Why would the Twisting Tree hybrid study get magic mouth instead?


That is weird and a bit naff, but you still get to just use true strike in that slot, so it's not the end of the world for me.

Very odd choice compared to other studies though.


vagrant-poet wrote:

That is weird and a bit naff, but you still get to just use true strike in that slot, so it's not the end of the world for me.

Very odd choice compared to other studies though.

What are the other studies? Does anyone get Mirror Image?


Midnightoker wrote:
vagrant-poet wrote:

That is weird and a bit naff, but you still get to just use true strike in that slot, so it's not the end of the world for me.

Very odd choice compared to other studies though.

What are the other studies? Does anyone get Mirror Image?

Yes - Laughing Shadow


Laughing Shadow 7th: mirror image; 11th: shift blame; 13th: dimension door

Sparkling Targe 7th: resist energy; 11th: warding aggression; 13th: stoneskin

Starlit Span 7th: darkvision; 11th: wall of wind; 13th: freedom of movement

Inexorable Iron 7th: enlarge; 11th: earthbind; 13th: dimensional anchor

Twisting Tree 7th: magic mouth; 11th: slow; 13th: blink

Is the full list


Uchuujin wrote:
Every other studious spell granted to the magus is combat effective. Why would the Twisting Tree hybrid study get magic mouth instead?

I don't think this is strictly true - albeit I don't know what some of the new ones do

But I'm not sure "every" other spell really is. But Magic Mouth is probably the worst and most nonsensical

Anyone have any ideas for a house rule replacement? I am trying to work out what the theme seems to be for each. The staff one seems to be for "traditional wizard spells"

Shadow - movement and deception

Targe - defensive

Starlit - another tricky one but all about making shooting opportunities easier and getting shot in return harder?

Iron - solid, grounded and stable


Slow and Blink are pretty great, as is the rest of Twisting Tree, so I think it might be a balancing factor. Sort of similar to how the Draconic Sorcerer gets the useless Claws spell, but then the excellent breath weapon.
No idea why they picked Magic Mouth, it doesn't exactly scream staff-user and at least the Claw spell is extremely draconic.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Mirror Image is the big standout on that list... though I'd say Darkvision might be a bigger miss than Mouth, there's just too many characters who get darkvision for free.

Both aren't very inspiring though.


Squiggit wrote:

Mirror Image is the big standout on that list... though I'd say Darkvision might be a bigger miss than Mouth, there's just too many characters who get darkvision for free.

Both aren't very inspiring though.

Yeah the Darkvision was what I was thinking about with my answer


As to Twisting Tree - it has been brought up in another thread - it can get reach to overcome the AOO the Spellstrike provokes. Among other things

Biggest thing I don't like is it being strength based. Something about the fantasy of a dexterous staff/polearm user - be it a monk with a Bo Staff / Oberyn Martell etc


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LOL after all the complaining of wanting Mirror Image as an option for Magus as they level... I guess squeaky wheel?

I'll take it. Laughing Shadow looks absolutely nuts.

EDIT: OH SNAP! MY SHIPPING CONFIRMATION EMAIL JUST HIT!!!


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The default spells are true strike, spider climb, water breathing, haste, and fly btw.


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Kyrone wrote:
The default spells are true strike, spider climb, water breathing, haste, and fly btw.

Consider me satisfied with their new sets of spells.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Do you get to keep the Studious Spells in your spellbook? How do these Studious Spell slots work with the spell slots that vanish as you level up? Do these slots increase in level or are they all static and you get to keep the spell slots, but only for the Studious Spells to be cast in them, or are we talking about only having a single Studious Spell slot and that slot increases as you level up with spells like Slow replacing Magic Mouth, and Blink replacing Slow eventually?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The slots level up, but you don't replace any of the spells. You get 2 2nd level slots at 7, which become 3rd level slots at 11, which become 4th level slots at 13.

A 13th level Twisting Tree Magus has two extra 4th level slots they can use to prepare spider climb, true strike, water breathing, magic mouth, haste, slow, fly or blink in, all of which are also added to the magus' spellbook.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ah, okay; thanks for clarifying that!

So, I have a follow-up question I have been wondering about for a long time now: Can the Magus and/or Summoner take the Elementalist or Shadow Caster Archetypes and can they use the options for Geomancy, Ley Lines, and Cathartic Magic or are they prohibited because they are not full casters and have Bound Casting instead?

Thanks for answering the questions, guys!


They can, though elementalist is probably not really hot on Magus as the metamagics on ot don't work on spellstrike and the Arcane List is way better than the Elemental List.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kyrone wrote:
They can, though elementalist is probably not really hot on Magus as the metamagics on ot don't work on spellstrike and the Arcane List is way better than the Elemental List.

Awesome! Thanks! I suppose I could get a more environmental and nature-oriented Magus still by using the Geomancy and Ley Line stuff while keeping the Arcane spell list, if the GM allows it.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ashanderai wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
They can, though elementalist is probably not really hot on Magus as the metamagics on ot don't work on spellstrike and the Arcane List is way better than the Elemental List.
Awesome! Thanks! I suppose I could get a more environmental and nature-oriented Magus still by using the Geomancy and Ley Line stuff while keeping the Arcane spell list, if the GM allows it.

I believe the Magus is compatible with the Halcyon caster dedications as well, but that will cost you class feats.

Liberty's Edge

Xethik wrote:
Ashanderai wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
They can, though elementalist is probably not really hot on Magus as the metamagics on ot don't work on spellstrike and the Arcane List is way better than the Elemental List.
Awesome! Thanks! I suppose I could get a more environmental and nature-oriented Magus still by using the Geomancy and Ley Line stuff while keeping the Arcane spell list, if the GM allows it.
I believe the Magus is compatible with the Halcyon caster dedications as well, but that will cost you class feats.

Unless you play in Strength of Thousands.


Technically still applies in Strength of Thousands because the only free archetypes the book hands out are wizard and druid. IMO it seems very reasonable to allow Halcyon archetypes too, though.

Liberty's Edge

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Perpdepog wrote:
Technically still applies in Strength of Thousands because the only free archetypes the book hands out are wizard and druid. IMO it seems very reasonable to allow Halcyon archetypes too, though.

There are additional nice things for PCs in the appendix of the first book that really should have been in the Player's Guide ;-)


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I so want to go play that AP as a Magus asap Q_Q


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
Perpdepog wrote:
Technically still applies in Strength of Thousands because the only free archetypes the book hands out are wizard and druid. IMO it seems very reasonable to allow Halcyon archetypes too, though.
There are additional nice things for PCs in the appendix of the first book that really should have been in the Player's Guide ;-)

Yup. All the drama, and you get the archetype for free after all, in *addition* to the class archetype.

Link to the spoiler free article in question


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Oh nice! As if I didn't have enough reasons to want to play that AP.


Kind of a tangent, but is there sections in the forum to find groups ?

Silver Crusade

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Yep,

Online Campaigns > Recruitment

and

Gamer Connection


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Thanks ! Wish me luck!

Silver Crusade

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Yay! Good luck ^w^


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For those considering a Twisted Tree Magus, I have a breakdown of the spell traditions for the specific staffs. It's especially helpful if you're considering multiclassing into another tradition.

Staff Spell Traditions


Gisher wrote:

For those considering a Twisted Tree Magus, I have a breakdown of the spell traditions for the specific staffs. It's especially helpful if you're considering multiclassing into another tradition.

Staff Spell Traditions

A couple notes. There's an 8th level feat available to all magi that lets you fuse a staff into another weapon so you can spellstrike with its spells (but not cast anything else). If you don't plan to true strike with a divination staff, another hybrid study might be better suited for you.

Second, early numbers crunching indicates that shocking grasp is your best spell slot to spellstrike with at all levels except 4th. For 4th the new chromatic ray spell is better. Pity it doesn't scale. The best cantrip seems to be the new gouging claw.

No word yet on best AoEs to spellstrike with.


The twisting tree magus seems a pretty good and solid choice, but I'd probably go with inexorable iron because of anchor.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Twisting tree magus that fuses their staff to another staff...


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Squiggit wrote:
Twisting tree magus that fuses their staff to another staff...

Yo dawg, I heard you like staves.

So we put a staff in your staff.


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Squiggit wrote:
Twisting tree magus that fuses their staff to another staff...

So... can you fuse THAT staff with a 3rd staff? ;)


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
graystone wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Twisting tree magus that fuses their staff to another staff...
So... can you fuse THAT staff with a 3rd staff? ;)

Sadly no. You can only do it while preparing a staff and you can only prepare one staff per day. So even if you glue two staffs together only one of them works properly.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
HumbleGamer wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Twisting tree magus that fuses their staff to another staff...

Yo dawg, I heard you like staves.

So we put a staff in your staff.

Okay, thanks. You can leave it with that member of my staff over there.

*Points at the hired henchman wearing Staff Sergeant stripes.*


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Squiggit wrote:
graystone wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
Twisting tree magus that fuses their staff to another staff...
So... can you fuse THAT staff with a 3rd staff? ;)
Sadly no. You can only do it while preparing a staff and you can only prepare one staff per day. So even if you glue two staffs together only one of them works properly.

Bummer. I wanted to use staves like Russian nesting dolls.


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Gisher wrote:

For those considering a Twisted Tree Magus, I have a breakdown of the spell traditions for the specific staffs. It's especially helpful if you're considering multiclassing into another tradition.

Staff Spell Traditions

For anyone looking to make a custom staff, I've also sorted spells by their traits. I'll add the SoM spells as soon as I get my pdf.

Spells Sorted by Traits

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