Permanency and scrolls


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Do you have to be the minimum caster level to use the self only list for permanency or can you use a scroll to meet the qualification?

In the permanency spell it states "Depending on the spell, you must be of a minimum caster level". So how can you use a scroll to meet this requirement? The scroll doesn't make you a caster level of the scroll itself. The scroll caster level is only used to determine the quality and bonuses to the spell in the scroll.

The wording disqualifies anyone that isn't the actual caster level from using the self only list in my opinion and by RAW.


Your question is slightly unclear to me.

Do you mean to use a scroll of Permanency with a spell you are actually casting, or to cast Permanency and use a scroll of the spell you intend to make permanent?

In the first case, you'd need a special copy of Permanency on a scroll that had been scribed at the correct caster level.
In the second case, you yourself would have to be high enough level to make the 2nd spell permanent, regardless of the source of the 2nd spell.


Do you have to be a caster to use the self only list on permanency?

I would say yes you have to be a caster to use that list, even though I highly doubt anyone will agree with me. Why have two lists if anyone can do it with a scroll? Why wouldn't they just say these are spells you can permanency? Then also explain you can do it with a scroll. Since (you must be of a minimum caster level) doesn't this mean you have to be able to cast the actual spell, and be of that caster level? I don't see anything that says you can scroll that list of self only permanency.


Straph, you still aren't making any sense to me. And no-one else has bothered replying, so you probably aren't making any sense to them either.

What are you actually asking?

To use Permanency normally, you need to 'know' it - either by preparing it (wizard) or by having it a known spell (sorceror).

If you are a sorceror, but haven't taken it as a known spell, you could use a scroll - but would then be limited by the caster level of that scroll instead of your own caster level. A wizard could also do this, but would normally be better off learning the spell from the scroll.

If you aren't either a wizard or a sorceror, you have to be using Use Magical Device to be able to cast it at all. In which case, you would have to be emulating a caster level sufficiently high to then be able to apply the 2nd spell (which you must also cast, somehow) to yourself.


How we have usually run it: A scroll of Permanency actually has two spells on it*, the one you want made permanent, and the Permanency spell. This is because, not only does the caster level of the Permanency have to be high enough, but the variable amount of diamond dust that has to go into the Permanency scroll. I haven't read through all of the AP/Adventures to see if there was a treasure of Permanency scroll, but I doubt it because of those two requirements.

*Since a scroll can have multiple spells on it.

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