Could you help me understand spell targets?


Rules Discussion

Horizon Hunters

When I play pathfinder 2 spells like Heal and Lay in Hands can be used on the player who casts the spell and in both cases the targets are 1 willing living creature, but while I was searching in the internet I "learned" that Magic Fang cannot be used on the caster even if the target is almost the same as the heal spell (1 willing creature). What am I missing?

Plot twist: I was playing wrong and lay on hand and heal can only be used on allies?!


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Lay on hands can be used on yourself or an ally.

If used on yourself, it simply heals you the given amount.
If used on an ally, in adjunct gives +2 status AC for 1 round.
If used on an undead ( or an evil creature, if you took the vengeful oath ) you damage it.

Heal can be used on anybody ( yourself, allies and enemies ):

- You could cast a 2 action heal on yourself or an ally
- You could cast a 2 action heal on an undead creature ( or a creature vulnerable to positive damage ).
- If you cast a lvl 3 heal, you are going to heal ( or damage, if within the area there are creatures with negative healing or vulnerable to positive damage ) anybody withing the area. Allies or enemies.

What you must remember is that by "ally" is intended anybody but the caster itself ( so other party members, familiars, companions, allied NPC, etc... ).

As for Magic Fang, it can be used on anybody who is willing and has an unarmed attack.


Romão98 wrote:
while I was searching in the internet I "learned" that Magic Fang cannot be used on the caster

Where did you learn this? This doesn't seem to be correct to me.

Horizon Hunters

Ruzza wrote:
Romão98 wrote:
while I was searching in the internet I "learned" that Magic Fang cannot be used on the caster
Where did you learn this? This doesn't seem to be correct to me.

A discussion on Reddit about "You a not your own ally"


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Romão98 wrote:
Ruzza wrote:
Romão98 wrote:
while I was searching in the internet I "learned" that Magic Fang cannot be used on the caster
Where did you learn this? This doesn't seem to be correct to me.
A discussion on Reddit about "You a not your own ally"

My guess is that you found an old discussion before the errata was published.

Here you can find all the errata for pathfinder 2e.

As for the Magic Fang Spell:

Quote:
age 349: Some corner cases in magic fang and magic weapon. In magic fang, change the Targets entry to “1 willing creature.” Change the first sentence to “Choose one of the target’s unarmed attacks.” Change the last sentence to “The unarmed attack becomes a +1 striking unarmed attack, gaining a +1 item bonus to attack rolls and increasing the number of damage dice to two if it had only one.” This makes the spell less restrictive and more versatile. In magic weapon

Probably, before the errata, the target entry was "1 ally" or "1 willing ally".


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Romão98 wrote:
Ruzza wrote:
Romão98 wrote:
while I was searching in the internet I "learned" that Magic Fang cannot be used on the caster
Where did you learn this? This doesn't seem to be correct to me.
A discussion on Reddit about "You a not your own ally"

Well, it is true that in PF2 you do not qualify as your own ally.

However, Magic Fang doesn't specify that the target has to be the caster's ally. There are spells that do. Forbidding Ward for example. You couldn't cast Forbidding Ward to protect yourself from an enemy because you are not your own ally.

Also, Lay on Hands and Heal both have offensive targets too. So you can cast them on yourself, any other willing living creature, or any undead creature as an attack.


HumbleGamer wrote:

As for the Magic Fang Spell:

Quote:
age 349: Some corner cases in magic fang and magic weapon. In magic fang, change the Targets entry to “1 willing creature.” Change the first sentence to “Choose one of the target’s unarmed attacks.” Change the last sentence to “The unarmed attack becomes a +1 striking unarmed attack, gaining a +1 item bonus to attack rolls and increasing the number of damage dice to two if it had only one.” This makes the spell less restrictive and more versatile. In magic weapon
Probably, before the errata, the target entry was "1 ally" or "1 willing ally".

I vaguely remember that at one point Magic Fang's targeting was so restrictive that you technically couldn't cast it on your Animal Companion. That may have been during the original PF2 playtest though.


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breithauptclan wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:

As for the Magic Fang Spell:

Quote:
age 349: Some corner cases in magic fang and magic weapon. In magic fang, change the Targets entry to “1 willing creature.” Change the first sentence to “Choose one of the target’s unarmed attacks.” Change the last sentence to “The unarmed attack becomes a +1 striking unarmed attack, gaining a +1 item bonus to attack rolls and increasing the number of damage dice to two if it had only one.” This makes the spell less restrictive and more versatile. In magic weapon
Probably, before the errata, the target entry was "1 ally" or "1 willing ally".
I vaguely remember that at one point Magic Fang's targeting was so restrictive that you technically couldn't cast it on your Animal Companion. That may have been during the original PF2 playtest though.

It was "1 willing ally" in the CRB.

So the druid was unable to cast it on himself before shapeshifting.

I wasn't there during the playtest so I have no clue about it.

Horizon Hunters

HumbleGamer wrote:

My guess is that you found an old discussion before the errata was published.

Here you can find all the errata for pathfinder 2e.

Probably, before the errata, the target entry was "1 ally" or "1 willing ally".

Nice catch! The discussion on Reddit was in 2019 I truly thought it was updated.


Another solid reason to turn to AoN for rules discussion as they usually get errata up quite quickly. So much so that I didn't even remember the original printing of "one willing ally."


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Ruzza wrote:
Another solid reason to turn to AoN for rules discussion as they usually get errata up quite quickly. So much so that I didn't even remember the original printing of "one willing ally."

Talking about AoN, Am I the only one who miss the old site without the filter?

Now if I have to look for some item list I prefer to use pathbuilder instead... If there's a way to load the site with its old format, please tell me how.

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