Vision of Hell - 1 check or many?


Rules Questions


Vision of Hell reads:

"You overlay a realistic illusion of a terrifying hellscape upon an area. Structures, equipment, and creatures within the area are not hidden, though environmental features take on an infernal appearance. While you are prepared for these images and are not affected by them, any other creature within the area must make a Will save or become shaken and also take a –2 penalty on saves versus fear effects; the fear and penalty persists as long as the creature remains in the area. Devils and any lawful evil creatures suffer no negative effects from this spell."

While it's clear that creatures who fail their save are affected by the penalty and fear as long as they remain in the area, what about creatures who make their save? Do they need to save every round or are they immune once they make the initial save?

I'm guessing it's the latter, since most illusion effects end after a successful save, but I'd like to make sure.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!


I think it's just one save.


I agree with MrCharisma that it looks like a creature within or entering the area must make a Will save once. If they fail, they take the penalties listed.

Some things I noticed. The saving throw is not a save for Disbelief. It is just a save to resist the effects, so anyone standing within it or entering it who passes doesn't necessarily notice anything wrong at all (other than the 'wrongness' of a hellish portion of the world in a 50-foot radius area). As an illusion, they might be able to make a separate Will save to notice the illusion if they actually spent time investigating and interacting with it.

I also have to say that I am a little puzzled on why they made Lawful Evil creatures immune to the spell's effects. Hear me out here, I am perfectly fine with the caster and devils being immune to a vision of Hell, but isn't a vision of Hell supposed to be more unsettling and frightening to people who are on the path to end up there?

Could you imagine receiving some vision of what your actual final destination and where you will spend eternity because of your actions and character and being like... "Naw... that's cool". (Sure, there's probably one or two people thinking they're all masochistic and macho and that they won't be piles of blobby flesh being tortured for centuries.) But really, isn't a vision of Hell supposed to be a warning and frighten sinners and evil-doers? It's like, "Oh... hey.... you're a really good person; Lawful Goo, a saint, and you're not going to Hell... so here's a vision of something horrifying that you will probably never have to deal with unless you specifically choose to go to Hell.... BE AFRAID!"


Thanks, that's what I suspected!

Yeah, I understand why they make lawful evil creatures immune (for example, you wouldn't want a group of lawful evil clerics to be incapacitated by one of their own spells).

There's a psychological difference between people who basically embrace being evil and probably imagine they will be rewarded in hell (because, after all, they're superior!), and those who are evil but don't think they are because they rationalize their behavior, e.g., the slave trader who rationalizes she's not only supporting her family and those of her crew, but also providing cheap labor to help keep the economy strong. An end justifies the means approach. Does she think she's going to hell - probably not! And "realistically" (although that's a funny term to use in these discussions) she should probably be affected by the spell.


Except that the two main LE deities are "the dude you literally know is going to bring you here anyway because you are the way you are, so you've accepted this" and friggen Zon-Kuthon, the only guy who is likely to take you to a worse fate than Asmodeus. Self aware LE characters know this is how it is, especially if they actually worship either of those faiths, but even then plenty of the other gods talk about it (e.g. Torag sending suicides to hell to keep them from Abbadon) and so the LE guys are like "I'm totally ok with that."

The only example I can think of where someone wouldn't be ok with this fate would be an unashamed LE character who is doing everything in his/her power to bargain out of fate in hell, but even then, they could just forgo their immunity. Shrug


Yep, MrCharisma and Pizza Lord are correct, 1 save. If you save, you're unaffected for the remainder of the spell --if you fail, you're affected for the remainder as long as you're within the hellscape 50ft radius emanation effect. If you leave the effect and come back, you don't Save again, you would use your previous Save results.

Y'know you'd think that after an LE saw this spell in action, he would immediately stop being LE and head on a path of redemption, maybe even become a paladin.

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