The only iffy part is whether throat slicer is allowed by a participant in a grapple as opposed to someone outside it - as written it is its own standard action, and grapple only allows a restricted list. Thematically that's when it's supposed to work, inside a grapple, but I dunno.
You might expect the big bad to do something about the grapple on their action between those two of course.
The only iffy part is whether throat slicer is allowed by a participant in a grapple as opposed to someone outside it - as written it is its own standard action, and grapple only allows a restricted list. Thematically that's when it's supposed to work, inside a grapple, but I dunno.
You might expect the big bad to do something about the grapple on their action between those two of course.
GREATER GRAPPLE allows you to maintain a grapple as a move action .
So Round 1:
Move Action: Move up to enemy
Standard Action: Initiate a Grapple
Round 2:
Move Action: Maintain Grapple (Pin)
Standard Action: Throat Slicer
So it should work.
There are ways around this: You get a round to escape the grapple, you could have Freedoom Of Movement precast, between the Pin and the Slice someone could cast Liberating Command on you, I would give some kind of bonus for wearing THIS ITEM or something similar.
Also, your Big Bad could be immune/resistant to Coup de Grace attempts . You could give it an item that lets it auto-pass once per day or something similar?
Personally I think the Big Bad SHOULD have enough plot-armour that you can't just slit it's throat, so I think you played it right. In the future you could find ways of making that happen within the rules, but honestly this is the kind of scenario we have a GM for - if the rules aren't fun then change them.
Having a standard action free isn't the issue. Grapple has a fairly limited number of things you can do without releasing or escaping the grapple and throat slicer isn't on the list. Maybe it should be, but the GM certainly has that wiggle room free if they want it.
You're not using the Grapple action to perform the CdG, you're usijg the grapple to pin them then using your other action to CdG them. Grapple has a limited number of things you can do as part of the action to grapple, but it doesn't limit your other actions.
If you are grappled ... you can take any action that doesn’t require two hands to perform ...
I'm cutting a LOT out of that quote, but I can't see anything in the Grappled condition or in the Grapple rules that stops you using your other actions on other things.
As I said, I think the GM made the right call. But RAW this is doable.
if he didn't have enough sense to even buy (or craft) this- then he got what he deserves.
(and im not even talking about a ring of freedom of movement which would be better but cost more)
You also only release the grapple if by the end of your turn you don't succeed in maintaining at least once. So you don't even need greater grapple as long as you don't mind potentially letting your catch free on the third round after you've pinned (on the second), assuming they survive.
Yeah I don't think that works. As soon as you begin the Full Round Action Coup de Grace you're no longer pinning the opponent and they're no longer a valid target for the CdG.
You can't CDG a normal person unless they are bound, throatslicer is the only thing that lets you do it before you tie some one up, and if you've tied them up, what's the difference between letting go?
Oh, if you're tying them up then yes you can CdG them.
To clarify, you can CdG someone who is Helpless, which includes Bound, Sleeping, Unconscious and Paralyzed.
And yes Throat Slicer adds "Pinned" to this list.
You also only release the grapple if by the end of your turn you don't succeed in maintaining at least once.
Also, I don't think this is correct. You release the Grapple as soon as you fail to spend a Standard Action to maintain the Grapple. And as soon as you declare you're spending a Full Round Action to CdG someone that Standard Action to maintain becomes impossible .
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure on this one but that's how I've always seen it played. The timing doesn't appear to be explicit in the text though, so I guess there's room for interpretation.
Anyone have any links or quotes that help here?
It just says
If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
That can be interpreted that as soon as you chose not to take the action, you are inherently choosing the free action to let go, but then why is the release action free. I run with if you don't succeeded at a grapple check since the start of a turn, then you lose the grapple at the end of the turn because you've failed to maintain at all. And again, since Throat Slicer doesn't require Greater Grapple as a prereq, then either Throat Slicer is worthless until you do take GG, or you get to save one round by not maintaining to the point of tying someone up (and then save an extra round when you do have GG).
Point of order: if you cannot use throatslicer on a victim you are pinning without GG, throatslicer is hardly worthless. You could have an ally doing the pinning, couldn't you? Then no one needs GG.
Yeah I agree. There's a vast area between "can auto-kill the BBEG in 2 rounds" and "useless".
Just because you can't auto-kill an enemy on your own doesn't make a feat useless.
Maybe but how many games are you going to see a throatslicer feat for the same intented use (someone grapples then pin+cut throat) taken when it isn't the guy doing the grappling taking it? And even then its not useless so much as all you're doing is making the party wait an extra turn when your BBEG is already pinned.
Still DDoor may be an old player cheese, but its not that common in printed material.