Breath Weapon Question


Rules Questions


Does a dragon, or any other creature with a breath Weapon, know how long until it's next available usage of that breath Weapon?

Are there any tell-tale signs that such creatures are ready and able to use this power?

Do these creatures always begin an encounter able to breathe?

The Exchange

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Ghostwheel wrote:
Does a dragon, or any other creature with a breath Weapon, know how long until it's next available usage of that breath Weapon?

No rules guidance on this, but I always play it as "yes." If players have such an ability I let them roll it, so they know how long it lasts. Figure the NPCs would too.

Quote:
Are there any tell-tale signs that such creatures are ready and able to use this power?

Not really.

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Do these creatures always begin an encounter able to breathe?

Almost certainly. Anything that is usable every 1d6 rounds (or whatever) would be available unless they happened to have used it a few seconds ago. It's "use then recharge" rather than "charge then use."


Yeah, nothing explicit, but I'm sure the answer tothe first questionis "yes". The main argument that I see is that if the "cooldown state" isn't known to the user, what happens when the creature attempts to use it before the ability is aviable again? There are no rules for that, either. Does it simoply not work, without using an action? If yes, it would make no real difference to just knowing when it's ready. Would it waste an action? Nothing says so, and that seems to be a pretty big thing to not write down. Plus, it would be a nightmare for a GM to run any dragon, because they know the cooldown state, but using that would be metagaming.

"no" to the telltale signs, and "yes" to the initial aviability.


I always play this as "yes"... the dragon does not misfire/fail attempts to use their breath weapon when it is not available. I look at the whole 1/D4rnds thing, not as a physical recharge... no gland is filling up with or producing breath weapon juices... but more as a tactics reminder.

Dragons are old, wise, and methodical. They know to stay mobile, and vary their attacks to not become predictable. I look at it as the dragon wouldn't use their breath weapon every round, even if they could. The recharge rate just reminds me to do something different for a few rounds.

And I use it as a timer... holy crap, the dragon got to use its breath weapon TWICE?!?! That was a good dragon encounter (or the party is slacking).

I also always play that such things, such as breath weapons, are available for immediate use each initiative. I don't care what the dragon was doing when you first seen it... when you engage it, or it engages you, and initiative is rolled... it is ready to go. You could initiate a surprise round, interupting the dragon currently using its breath weapon... and as soon as it can act, it can use its breath weapon for the first time THIS ENCOUNTER...


I imagine that a Dragon's Breath Attack is not autonomic, but rather is somatic. Autonomic is anything that your body does without you actually thinking about it, such as breathing, raising your temperature to fight a virus, operating your organs, etc. Somatic is controlling your body by thinking about it, like moving your arms and legs, etc.

So a Dragon's Breath is somatic, because it has to actively think about it to perform it. Therefore, yes, I think a Dragon would absolutely know when they could perform their breath attack again. I imagine it would be like lifting a dumbbell while working out; you lift a dumbbell 8 times and get tired and take a break between sets of reps, and you personally would know how long it will take before you're okay to do the next set of 8 reps.


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I agree with every other poster, but I don't think it would be unreasonable as a house rule to allow players to make a KN: Nature, Arcana, or other appropriate check, to detect signs of an impeding breath weapon attack. Should probably take an action something equivalent to the Investigator's or Slayer's class feature (one of those is Studied Strike yes?) Allow a successful check to give a small bonus to the reflex save, or maybe just a free action to shout "Scatter!".

I like V-Monks tactical explanation, but I'm a Zoology guy, and I do tend to think of breath weapons as coming from some mystical organ with refilling energies. At least in 3.5 D&D the lore also supported that explanation. Either way (or both) YEP! The creature definitely knows when it's good to go again.


Thanks for the input, everyone! The consensus seems to agree with the way I have always played it. I just couldn't figure out why I played it that way. Now I have reasons.


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Derklord wrote:
Plus, it would be a nightmare for a GM to run any dragon, because they know the cooldown state, but using that would be metagaming.

First of all - I agree with everything you said. And I agree with the consensus of the thread.

But if someone DID want to play a Dragon without knowing when the cooldown ends, you could try this:

Quote:

This Imaginary dragon can use their breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds.

When the Dragon goes to use their breath weapon they roll 1d4 on a DC:5 check. They add 1 to their roll for every round since they last used their breath weapon.

Thus if they used their breath weapon 1 round ago (last round) the roll 1d4+1. If they used their breath weapon 2 rounds ago ghey roll 1d4+2. If they used their breath weapon 3 rounds ago they roll 1d4+3. And if they used their breath weapon 4 or more rounds ago they no longer need to roll (since it would automatically pass).

If I'm honest, I think this would be more trouble than it's worth, but it's a way of playing it without the GM (or player) knowing how long till the breath weapon resets on the monster (or character).


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MrCharisma wrote:
Derklord wrote:
Plus, it would be a nightmare for a GM to run any dragon, because they know the cooldown state, but using that would be metagaming.

First of all - I agree with everything you said. And I agree with the consensus of the thread.

But if someone DID want to play a Dragon without knowing when the cooldown ends, you could try this:

Quote:

This Imaginary dragon can use their breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds.

When the Dragon goes to use their breath weapon they roll 1d4 on a DC:5 check. They add 1 to their roll for every round since they last used their breath weapon.

Thus if they used their breath weapon 1 round ago (last round) the roll 1d4+1. If they used their breath weapon 2 rounds ago ghey roll 1d4+2. If they used their breath weapon 3 rounds ago they roll 1d4+3. And if they used their breath weapon 4 or more rounds ago they no longer need to roll (since it would automatically pass).

If I'm honest, I think this would be more trouble than it's worth, but it's a way of playing it without the GM (or player) knowing how long till the breath weapon resets on the monster (or character).

I agree that's probably more hassle than it's worth, but it did make me giggle at the idea of an actually "juvenile" dragon (not the age category). An encounter with a dragon that hasn't quite learned enough self awareness to listen to the cues from it's own body, could be interesting and entertaining. Young dragon gets all puffed up, goes to breath . . . . . nothing but wind and raspberries. Mature dragon in the background face palms :p


MrCharisma wrote:

But if someone DID want to play a Dragon without knowing when the cooldown ends, you could try this:

Quote:

This Imaginary dragon can use their breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds.

When the Dragon goes to use their breath weapon they roll 1d4 on a DC:5 check. They add 1 to their roll for every round since they last used their breath weapon.

Thus if they used their breath weapon 1 round ago (last round) the roll 1d4+1. If they used their breath weapon 2 rounds ago ghey roll 1d4+2. If they used their breath weapon 3 rounds ago they roll 1d4+3. And if they used their breath weapon 4 or more rounds ago they no longer need to roll (since it would automatically pass).

Ok, I know this probably doesn't matter to anyone but me, but the numbers in bold are incorrect =P

If you rolled 1d4+x each time you have an inconsistent chance of getting your breath weapon back on each turn. It's 25% on the first turn (which is correct), 37.5% on the second turn, 28.125% on the third turn, and only a 9.375% chance that you'll have to wait till turn 4.

It should be 1d4+1for the first roll, 1d3+2 for the second roll, and 1d2+3 for the third roll. This gives you a 25% chance of each round being the one where you get your breath weapon back.

Since it's extremely unlikely anyone will ever bother with this I'm sure it didn't need to be corrected, but I had this in the back of my head and thought I should correct it.

Thank you for indulging me =P


A much simpler alternative to MrCharisma's idea is to borrow D&D 5E's Recharge rule for some monsters' special actions: Each round after using the ability, roll a d6; if you roll the recharge number (usually 6 or 5-6), the monster has use of the ability back again, and can use it that round if they wish. This removes the bookkeeping of tracking 1d(n) rounds until it can be used again.

Liberty's Edge

Tim Emrick wrote:
A much simpler alternative to MrCharisma's idea is to borrow D&D 5E's Recharge rule for some monsters' special actions: Each round after using the ability, roll a d6; if you roll the recharge number (usually 6 or 5-6), the monster has use of the ability back again, and can use it that round if they wish. This removes the bookkeeping of tracking 1d(n) rounds until it can be used again.

But change noticeably the timer. With a positive result on a roll of 5-6 the rolls sequence has a1 19,75% chance of getting a negative result 4 times in a row. 13,16% to fail 5 times.

The 1d4 guarantees a recharged breath weapon on round 4.

Dark Archive

This is wandering into house rule territory, I like just averaging it out. If the dragon's breath weapon recharges every 1d4 rounds, I make it available every other round. 1d4+1 or 1d6 = every three rounds. While it removes the possibility of back-to-back breath weapon rounds, it is one less thing I have to spend time to roll and note the time. Minor same time during the combat, but removing even a minute helps speed up combat. And it also stops that horrible feeling knowing the dragon can't breath for 4 more rounds and combat will probably be over by then.


I don’t think the dragon is going to be aware of exactly how long until the breath weapon is ready. Sure they know that it will be ready within 1d4 rounds, but other than that once they have used it they will not know that in 2 rounds they can use it again. Once they have regained the use they would become aware that it is ready to be used again. Since the recharge period is random and changes each time, that indicates there are multiple complex factors in what needs to happen before it is ready again. Combat is a chaotic environment where you don’t have time to plan out everything even for dragons.

Since the breath weapon takes 1d4 rounds to recover unless the dragon used its breath weapon within 1d4 rounds of the encounter beginning they should have it available. While there is no real way to tell if a creature has a breath weapon available it should be pretty obvious when they use it.

The way I would have it work is once the dragon uses its breath weapon roll 1d4 to see how long it will take to recharge. When the dragon regains its ability to use the breath weapon they become aware of it at the beginning of the turn when it returns before they get their turn. This allows the dragon to use the breath weapon on their turn if they so desire.


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Tim Emrick wrote:
A much simpler alternative to MrCharisma's idea is to borrow D&D 5E's Recharge rule for some monsters' special actions: Each round after using the ability, roll a d6; if you roll the recharge number (usually 6 or 5-6), the monster has use of the ability back again, and can use it that round if they wish. This removes the bookkeeping of tracking 1d(n) rounds until it can be used again.

Couldn't resist bringing up the "System that Shalt Not Be Named", but that mechanic was actually intro'd in 4E :p


Honestly, I have never once rolled a D4 to determine when a dragon can use its breath weapon. As the GM, my dragons can use their breath weapon as often they need to for plot relevance. I just prefer to use everything else instead.

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