Ok, I know we've still have about 3 long months before Secret of Magic is released, but when has something like that ever stopped us from doing baseless theory-crafting, am I right?
Well actually, it's not quite baseless. There has been plenty spoilers on the Book and this Archetype in particular during PaizoCon. caffeinatedninja7 kindly summed up all we know on reddit. I have not seen much of PaizoCon so much of that stuff is second hand knowledge to me. But it seems like most things are covered well enough to do some thinking about this.
The Archetype is only viable for prepared full casters. That's currently 4, last time I checked. Let's see how well each of them would work with this.
A few things to note:
I have also no idea how Reprepare Spell and similar feats would work with flexible casting. I guess it locks the reprepared spell to be used for a spell without duration or something like that? Some feats like the cleric's Miraculous Possibility don't make any sense at all and I wonder how well those edge cases are handled by the archetype.
Reduced Spells per day most likely means you want a backup plan. Preferably something better than cantrips. Picking up a martial Dedication like Archer or Mauler would help. Getting a Caster Dedication to bolster your number of spells will also work. But since the Archetype eats your 2nd level class feat, you wouldn't even be able to do that before level 4. Early armor access via Sentinel or Champion Dedication is also unavailable. I could see this being a much more serious limitation than many players think - at least at the earliest levels and if you're not playing with free archetypes or using Ancient Elf Shenanigans.
With this limtation in mind, I'll try to judge each class by itself, without any archetypes other than Flexible Casting.
Wizard: Should work fine. It will be interesting to see how Specialization slots and the re-casts of Drain Bonded Item work with the Archetype. You probably won't combine this Archetype with Spell Blending. If you do this as an Universalist you could actually end up with NO spell slots at some spell levels, which would make recasting them with Bonded Item rather difficult. But still, a Specialist Wizard with this archetype should work. Best Thesis seem Staff Nexus for more overall spells and Spell Substitution.
Druid: Will probably be fine. Medium armor, Shield Block and a half-decent weapon selection make this already a class you can play with some martial prowess. Leaf Druids are the weakest pick since they don't have a combat-viable Focus Spell and might run out of stuff to do in a fight. But Goodberry is great for out of combat healing, of course, reducing the need to spend slots on Heal. The other Orders do have combat focus spells and if they make good use of those, a flexible Druid sounds pretty playable.
Witch: Oh boy... Reducing a Witch to 2 spells per level is a terrible idea. The class is in theory good with Focus spells. Except the only non-cantrip focus spell it gets is largely useless. And with the Archetype you can't even pick up another one before level 4! The focus cantrips are pretty hit or miss (with a strong tendency towards miss) and you only ever get a single one. Unless you happen to have one of the few partons with good focus cantrips, you'll probably run out of stuff to do much more often than you like. Well, other than regular cantrips, of course. I don't really see how a Flexible With would ever be a good idea, to be honest.
I'll split up the Cleric since the Doctrines make for such vastly different playstyle.
Cloistered Cleric: Seems ok-ish. The Archetype doesn't seem to affect the number Divine Font slots you get and being able to convert all spells into heals (once again) is a nice addition for support/healer clerics. More offensive minded caster Clerics will probably find themself in a similar predicament to the witch. At least they can pick from a variety of focus spells right at level 1 - and a few of those are even useful. The new sound-based attack cantrip added to the Divine Tradition will make caster clerics better overall as well.
Warpriest: Now we're talking! Being able to use each and any of your spell slots for Cast Down or Channel Smite at a moment's notice seems incredible. And as the most martial of the casters, the warpriest doesn't really run out of things to do either, as long as there's something to hit nearby. I can see this easily being the best application of the Flexible Caster Archetype.
So... Thoughts? Anything I missed?
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Witch: Oh boy... Reducing a Witch to 2 spells per level is a terrible idea. The class is in theory good with Focus spells. Except the only non-cantrip focus spell it gets is largely useless. And with the Archetype you can't even pick up another one before level 4! The focus cantrips are pretty hit or miss (with a strong tendency towards miss) and you only ever get a single one. Unless you happen to have one of the few partons with good focus cantrips, you'll probably run out of stuff to do much more often than you like. Well, other than regular cantrips, of course. I don't really see how a Flexible With would ever be a good idea, to be honest.
As a Witch main, I tend to agree. At least with the conclusion.
I don't think that dropping another spell slot is going to hurt the Witch any more than it does Cloistered Cleric or Druid. That isn't the problem in my opinion.
What hurts the most is losing the 2nd level class feat. Not being able to take any of the Lesson feats or even an archetype until 4th level is painful. My Witch with Alchemist multiclass delayed the archetype dedication until 4th level in order to pick up Life Boost. I couldn't imagine my character without that. I'll just stick to trying to guess the right spells and quantity to prepare.
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The Cleric has extra Heals, the Druid has good repeatable focus options, The Wizard has an extra spell to start with. They can probably cope and use flexible casting OK. The Witch? That is probably too much of a loss.
Sorcerer still looks like the better option to me if you just want to be a caster.
I'm glad that they have made the option for the people who want it. But for me half the fun can be finding the right use for the spell that you do have memorised.
It is probably a very good for a Druid who plans to be in wildshape every combat. If they have the Medicine skill they can have a lot of spare spell slots.
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I'm glad that they have made the option for the people who want it.
Absolutely. I may even try out a Witch character with the archetype just to see how it plays out on an actual character. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.
And the Witch does also have some good focus point spells too. Just not many for blasting damage with.
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Spell Blending Wizard seems a terrific deal with this archetype to me; you're basically negating the downside so long as you're willing to give up your low level slots (which you are).
I disagree with the part about staff nexus. Flexible casters have insane flexibility, but lack slots. They don't want to give up slots, particularly high level ones, to a staff that might actually be less flexible.
I was mainly thinking about higher levels when you have a Staff that recharges at its own. But if you don't use your spell slots to get additional charges, the Staff Nexus does seem a bit pointless, doesn't it? Maybe for level 1 one-shots to lessen the loss of cantrips?
On the other hand, spell blending might be great. An extra max level and max level -1 spell would be awesome, given how many high level spells you can know. Then just take a witch archetype to fill in the low level spell slots.
Let's see... Blending as much as possible, a high level Spell Blender specialist could have 1 first and second level slot, 4 slots for his two highest levels and 2 slots for everything in between*. Adding Drain Bonded Item gets you to 9 high level slots per day. That's not too bad, especially with the ability to use them spontaneously.
I could see the lower number of low level spells become a problem on a long adventuring day. Using archetypes to fix this is always an option of course. Probably even a pretty good one, more so then for a regular caster. I personally found attaching another spellcasting Archetype to a 4-slot caster (sorc or Wizard) sometimes meant I ended up with too many spells, i.e. more than I could even cast during a single day.
*Is it just me or does that sound like 5e slot distribution in reverse?
What hurts the most is losing the 2nd level class feat. Not being able to take any of the Lesson feats or even an archetype until 4th level is painful. My Witch with Alchemist multiclass delayed the archetype dedication until 4th level in order to pick up Life Boost. I couldn't imagine my character without that. I'll just stick to trying to guess the right spells and quantity to prepare.
Yeah, that's what I meant basically. You're stuck with very few spells and no noteworthy Focus spells for at least the first 3 levels. And frankly, the Basic Lesson spells are fine, but not outstanding either. I'd be much more willing to give up spell slots if I already had something like Tempest Surge.
I'm glad that they have made the option for the people who want it. But for me half the fun can be finding the right use for the spell that you do have memorised.
I agree, but you still have to think about what to do with your prepared spells. You just might be able to use the same spell more often if the situation calls for it. Get's you closer to spontaneous casters in that regard, but that's kind of the point of the Archetype.
Spell Blending Wizard seems a terrific deal with this archetype to me; you're basically negating the downside so long as you're willing to give up your low level slots (which you are).
I'm not sure I am willing to do that. I've crippled a minor boss with three low level spells once (Grease, Glitterdust, Slow) as a 9th level Sorcerer. I knew the real major boss was coming up so I tried to preserve my higher level slots. Going down to 1-2 slots on everything but your two highest levels is a serious investment. As it should be. Still nothing I would do lightly.
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I really don't see how this could be worth it to anyone but the wizard, 2 spells/level is just not nearly enough when spells are the only combat relevant ability you're going to have (the cha based casters are spontaneous so you're not even going to be good at intimidate/bon mot without sacrificing a save stat).
I really don't see how this could be worth it to anyone but the wizard, 2 spells/level is just not nearly enough when spells are the only combat relevant ability you're going to have (the cha based casters are spontaneous so you're not even going to be good at intimidate/bon mot without sacrificing a save stat).
Well, it's tempting if spellcasting is not the only thing you have.
I've had a few wildshape druids in my games and they genuinely do not cast spells very often at all. Changing at the start of a fight and playing martial for the rest of it is fairly normal for them. Being able to flex their slots better in exchange for daily castings they might not even use in the first place is definitely appealing.
I could see my friend's Str/cha warpriest considering the option too, since she mostly just uses her font and weapons anyways. Though she self-buffs enough that she might not want to lose those slots, not sure.
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It's also good to consider if you wanna really be good at counterspelling. Having all the most common problem spells prepared and treating them as signature spells for the purposes of counterspelling makes Flex Casting really strong.
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Warpriest definitely feels like the best fit for this class archetype. Their font gives them plenty of heal/harm spells and their martial prowess gives them more than enough things to do other than cast spells. Having flexible support or utility spells to use as they please makes a lot of sense for that class I believe.
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I really don't see how this could be worth it to anyone but the wizard, 2 spells/level is just not nearly enough when spells are the only combat relevant ability you're going to have (the cha based casters are spontaneous so you're not even going to be good at intimidate/bon mot without sacrificing a save stat).
Staves, Wands, Multiclassing help to alleviate the slot burden a lot on a daily basis and wands / staves are one of the few things a caster wants to spend money on anyway.
Seperately wildshape druids would love to trade a volume of slots they don't use to sub in whatever utility they feel like.
This does seem like a stealth buff in general for Wizards and Warpriests, would I be mistaken?
This does seem like a stealth buff in general for Wizards and Warpriests, would I be mistaken?
Only if they take the feat! As good as it might be, it's still a decision you have to make at level 1, and involves your 2nd level class feat. Some people (as has been proven in this very thread) might not think it's worth it!
Wizard is starved for good class feats and doesn't mind giving up their 2nd... The loss of a feat is a lot more relevant to Warpriests, who have a lot of things they might want to take around that level - Harming/Healing Hands, Communal Healing, and Versatile Font are all real considerations you might miss out on for a while if you take this archetype. It's still a really good archetype and might be worth shuffling those feats around for, but y'know. Considerations.
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This does seem like a stealth buff in general for Wizards and Warpriests, would I be mistaken?
I don't think so, no.
If I understood this correctly, you only get to prepare as many spells as you have spell slots. So a Warpriest has "only" access to 2 spells per level on any given day and a Wizard has 2-3 (depending on school). Even with the ability to cast all of them spontaneously as Signature Spells, that's a serious limitation in flexibility. Spell Substitution might help the Wizard, but from what I've heard, many players who take this thesis end up barely using it - if at all. And having this on top of spontaneous casting might be overkill because of the redundancy.
So a Flexible Caster kind of ends up being a Sorcerer with fewer spells per day and fewer spells known. You can switch them daily if you know what you'll be facing but I personally can't think of too many instances when I thought "I wish my sorcerer could give up some spell slots to retrain his spells every day." It's usually sufficient to have a few "always good to have" spells in your repertoire.
The biggest (as in BIGGEST) advantage of this archetype is probably treating all your spells as Signature. Prepare a low level spell with a decent heightening effect and you can basically throw all your spell slots at it. Something like Magic Missile, Sudden Bolt, Fireball, Phanton Pain... All spells you can cast all day long if nothing better comes up. I'm having some trouble finding such a spell on the Divine list - unles you have Cast Down to use with low level Heal/Harm - but I hope there'll be something useful in Secrets of Magic.
And of course there's also the missing 2nd level feat, which is a real detriment to many builds. Not so much for a pure caster but missing this will seriously delay any build that relies on an archetype.
Oh, and going Flexible also means no other class archetype. A Wizard might want to be a Runelord or an Elementalist. Can't have those if you're Flexible.
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The biggest (as in BIGGEST) advantage of this archetype is probably treating all your spells as Signature. Prepare a low level spell with a decent heightening effect and you can basically throw all your spell slots at it. Something like Magic Missile, Sudden Bolt, Fireball, Phanton Pain... All spells you can cast all day long if nothing better comes up.
A flexible wizard should be able to target the weakest defense 100% of the time (so long as you know what it is). You can't run out of spells that hit Fortitude saves if you find yourself using more than you expected, and you can't over prepare them when what you really needed to target today was Will. Flexible casting seriously unlocks the potential of the arcane list, it should be very difficult to not have any correct solutions to a presented combat problem.
Yeah. It's only fewer spells known than a sorcerer say, if you don't count the everything is signature aspect.
Like I actually think dispel magic is stronger on spontaneous casters that have it as a signature than prepared casters, but it does eat that level 2 signature.
Flexible wizard just has it in the bag of tricks, as well as say illusory creature at any level you like, etc, etc.
I think it's neither powerful, nor especially weak, just an option. The fairly even incidence of both opinions kind of makes me feel that way for sure.
A flexible wizard should be able to target the weakest defense 100% of the time (so long as you know what it is). You can't run out of spells that hit Fortitude saves if you find yourself using more than you expected, and you can't over prepare them when what you really needed to target today was Will. Flexible casting seriously unlocks the potential of the arcane list, it should be very difficult to not have any correct solutions to a presented combat problem.
Oh, absolutely. I still think a non-flexible caster might (ironically) have a more flexible spell selection in some situations. Say you're 5th level and picked Fireball as your big relfex-targeting spell. But then all low-reflex creatures you find yourself up against have fire resistance, or the fight takes place in a small room so you can't blast away without blowing up half your party. A vanilla Wizard might have brought a lightning bolt in addition to fireball but the flexible caster has to cover more situations with fewer different spells.
This is of course all pretty white-room-y. Still something to consider.
Also, one third of your spells as a Flexible Specialist Wizard has to come from the same school of spells. That can be a problem. As an example: There's only so many evocation spells that are useful to memorize because most of them are damage. They are ineffective unless cast at a high level. But you still only have so many high level slots available, even if you can fill them with a variety of spells.
Let's sum it up with: A flexible Wizard will have different things to consider when preparing spells. I'm not sure I'd say more things or more complex things, but you probably want/need to adjust your spell preparation to fit the abilities of your archetype.
Well, remember, specialist wizards have 1 more top level spell than sorcerers already. So now they will just have the same.
We don't really know how Arcanists are going to treat specialist slots, like those and healing font, which will matter.
Also, does ring of wizardry, which gives you more slots, also mean you can prepare more spells, since you prepare=to your slots?
What about spell blending? Does it reduce the total number of spells you can prepare (since you burn 2 slots for a higher level one) or do you prepare before you blend the slots so to speak?
Can you blend your specialist slots (depending how they work) I am 90% sure the answer is yes with normal spell slots, as it doesn't specify but still. This ties into the above question.
The answer to these questions will make a big difference.
Indeed. I think that's getting somewhat lost in this. It's hard to be able to say anything for certain until we see the full rules. About the only we can say for sure at this point is that the 2nd level dedication will hurt less if playing with the Free Archetype variant, which is true for all archetypes anyway.
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It's a shame this isn't an options for spontaneous casters I would love for an option that let all my repertoire be signature.
But instead, Spontaneous casters get Wellspring magic exclusively, which gives them spell slots back often and, if they fail their flat check, they get a Wild Magic effect that might still help them out!
Wizard and Druid in a close second place.
As many pointed out before, Spell Blending + this looks amazing. I didn't have any intention of playing a Wizard ever but with this I'm honestly in.
Druids Focus spells are so good they are not going to care that much about loosing slots. Specially Animal and Wild look really nice for this class archetype.
It's a shame this isn't an options for spontaneous casters I would love for an option that let all my repertoire be signature.
There is a lvl 20 Bard Feat for that :^)
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Wizard and Druid in a close second place.
As many pointed out before, Spell Blending + this looks amazing. I didn't have any intention of playing a Wizard ever but with this I'm honestly in.
Druids Focus spells are so good they are not going to care that much about loosing slots. Specially Animal and Wild look really nice for this class archetype.
It's a shame this isn't an options for spontaneous casters I would love for an option that let all my repertoire be signature.There is a lvl 20 Bard Feat for that :^)
I'm still kind of irritated that is a bard thing not a sorcerer thing
I'm still kind of irritated that is a bard thing not a sorcerer thing
Probably there are more Bard fans than Sorcerers' in the rule design teams for both PF2 and 5E, I guess. ( ; _ ; )
...for more radical guesses on why it happened that way, I AM GROOT.
Clearly, the sorcerer isn't as bardass as the team minstrel. ;3