Does the Spirit Warden archetype’s Rebuke Undead allow to take the Command Undead feat? Since this archetype is clearly made to give the shaman access to the Soul Warden class, and since Command Undead is one of the bonus spells it grants, I’d say it should be possible.
At 2nd level, the spirit warden gains the ability to channel positive energy...
Using foul powers of necromancy, you can command undead creatures, making them into your servants.
Prerequisites: Channel negative energy class feature.
Nope, those two are on opposite sides of the playing field. The command undead spell is entirely unrelated and soul warden only works with positive channeling too.
At 1st level, a soul warden gains the power to harm undead with positive energy. This ability functions exactly like a cleric’s ability to channel positive energy to deal damage to undead (but not to heal living creatures), and counts as channel energy for the purposes of qualifying for feats or determining effects that rely on channel energy.
It would seem that Soul Warden’s ability counts as both positive and negative energy, though it is positive. I was wondering if it is the same for the Soul Warden, on not.
Choose the Life Spirit and take the Versatile Channeler feat.
It's uncertain if it can be chosen by shamans and oracles. However, the Shaman I had in mind would be a Bones one.
If Versatile Channeler does the trick, it would do it with Rebuke Undead as well as with the life spirit channel.
You must have Channel Negative Energy as a Permanent ability in order to take Versatile Channeler --> Command Undead.
Choosing Life Spirit at level 1 will get you Channel Positive Energy, and then you take Versatile Channeler as your level 1 feat, Command Undead as your lvl 3 feat, and boom you're in business already. At level 4, you can choose Bones for your Wandering Spirit and now you're off to the races.
Take the Dreamed Secrets feat at level 13 so that you can get access to Command Undead spell, and pick up Extend Spell MM and Undead Master feats somewhere along the way, and you'll be on cruise control for awesome.
Ryze, Spirit Warden gets the Command Undead spell at 2nd level via Restless Magic.
And, possibly most important of all, Animate Dead is already on your spell list, so you can jump into Agent of the Grave as soon as level 6. Securing all 5 levels of Agent of the Grave by 10th level is legit... end up with BAB +5, +4/+3/+7 base saves, CL 9 with 5th level spells...
Remember, it takes CL 11+ to become a Lich... if you continue back into Spirit Warden Shaman after Agent of the Grave, you will want to become a Lich before level 15. Your 10th level Spirit Warden's Laugh at Death ability all but negates the healthy bonus Undeath Initiate gives you from Agent of the Grave.
If you really want the Command Undead feat, VMC Wizard gets it with the ability to Channel 3+Int per day... having a decent Intelligence isn't a bad thing, either. Agent of the Grave's Secrets of Death gives you bonus spells equal to your Intelligence modifier, so there may be some synergy there... at least multiple benefits to not dumping Intelligence.
The requirements for Soul Warden are Knowledge Religion 5 ranks and the ability to cast command undead or consecration. The word cast means they are talking about the spell command undead not the feat. The Spirit Warden’s Restless Magic already gives you access to the spell command undead in place of the 2nd level spell from your spirit. There is no need for the feat to take the prestige class.
I know. I was only asking if the feat can be taken by the one or the other class.
Ryze, Spirit Warden gets the Command Undead spell at 2nd level via Restless Magic.
Indeed they do, I missed that. Good catch.
This spell is what makes a Necromancer into a veritable Zoo anyway, so as long as you have this, you're gravy.
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You don't actually need the Command Undead feat to be a good Necromancer, so tbh, I wouldn't go out of your way with dips or VMC to get it. I would just work on making your Animate Dead and Command Undead spells as powerful as possible. Command Undead is your Necromancer Zoo spell, and you can "Juggle" as many Undead as you want; it's only limited on how many times per day you can cast Command Undead vs. their ability to resist it each time it drops after X amount of days.
Animate Dead is really nice for keeping Undead around who you want to be Permanent additions to your Zoo. You never need to make a single check against these guys once you have them.
Command Undead is really nice for keeping Undead who you don't mind if they get destroyed, and this is your Juggling act that has NO MAX HD. This is how you maximize the Zoo of Undead following you around. You have to recast Command Undead on them each time the duration ends after X days. So prepare multiple Command Undead spells every day so that you can get the maximum amount as possible, because if they resist it and you don't have any backups, you have to destroy them (because they turn and try to attack you). And this causes Sad Panda face to have to destroy them.
Remember that whenever your Animate Dead Bucket of Max HD gets overfilled, you can use Command Undead to "re-capture" them. Having multiple Command Undead spells prepared every day is ESSENTIAL to maximizing your Zoo. Also, it is highly advisable to get some 2nd lvl Pearls of Power to help out with this as well.
Anywho, I would go something like this:
Spirit Warden Shaman 5 --> Agent of the Grave 5 --> Spirit WardenX
Race: Human
Choose Bones Spirit at lvl 1.
Traits: Wayang Spellhunter (Command Undead)
Lvl1: Spell Focus (Necromancy), HBF: Varisian Tattoo (Necromancy)
lvl2:
lvl3: Undead Master (You can use this on Command Undead with 2days/lvl duration as of now)
Let the Command Undead juggling commence!
lvl4: Hex: Bone Lock
lvl5: Spell Specialization (Animate Dead)
Your CL for Animate Dead should be CL8 with Varisian Tattoo and Spell Spec, so that's 32HD already.
lvl6: First level of AotG - Each level of AotG increases your Animate Dead max HD by x2 (Animate Dead: 40HD)
lvl7: Extend Spell Metamagic (start preparing Extended Command Undead as a 2nd level spell slot that last for 3days/lvl duration) (Animate Dead: 48HD)
Now your Command Undead is truly awesome, because it lasts 21 days/level, so kick the juggling into overdrive!
lvl8: Animate Dead: 56 HD
lvl9: Heighten Spell (Animate Dead: 64HD)
lvl10: Now you're AotG5, next level go back to Shaman, (Animate Dead: 72HD)
lvl11: Persistent Spell Metamagic, You can prepare Persistent Extended Command Undead as a 5th level spell, and they have to save TWICE, which is a pretty big deal (Animate Dead: 76HD)
lvl12: (Animate Dead: 80HD)
lvl13: Dreamed Secrets (now you can choose 2 spells from the Wizard/Sorc spell list as Spells Known for 24 hours, and you can change these two Spells Known every day when you prepare spells-- you can only choose spells 1 level lower than what you can cast though) <---- LOTS of flexibility here (Animate Dead: 84HD)
lvl14: (Animate Dead: 88HD)
lvl15: Spell Perfection Command Undead - Now you can prepare Persistent Extended Command Undead as a 2nd level spell slot that lasts 45 days/level (Animate Dead: 92HD)
Now your Juggling Act is pretty much on Cruise Control. Also, you can choose 7th level spells from Wiz/Sorc, so Limited Wish is on the menu.
lvl7: Extend Spell Metamagic (start preparing Extended Command Undead as a 2nd level spell slot that last for 3days/lvl duration) (Animate Dead: 48HD)
Now your Command Undead is truly awesome, because it lasts
21 days/level21 days (3days/level), so kick the juggling into overdrive!lvl15: Spell Perfection Command Undead - Now you can prepare Persistent Extended Command Undead as a 2nd level spell slot that lasts
45 days/level45 days (3days/level) (Animate Dead: 92HD)
Fixed
One other thing I forgot to point out is that Agent of the Grave gets a Desecrate Aura at AotG lvl 3, so if you used the above build, you would have Desecrate Aura at level 8.
This is probably one of the most under-appreciated abilities of AotG, because the Desecrate spell is only available to Clerics, Oracles, Inquisitors, and AntiPaladins. Desecrate DOUBLES the amount of HD you can raise with a single casting of Animate Dead (2HD/CL becomes 4/HD/CL). And with the Undead Master feat, you're treated as 4 levels higher with a single casting of Animate Dead.
At level 8, your CL for Animate Dead should be 11 and you would have an Animate Dead Max HD "Bucket" of 56HD and you would normally be able to raise 22HD worth of Undead in a single casting of Animate Dead; Undead Master increases this to 15, so max of 30HD in a single casting. But, in a single casting of Animate Dead in a Desecrate, you can animate a total of 60HD worth of Undead in a single casting!
Here's where Command Undead really shines. After combat, pile all the bodies together, cast Animate Dead on the whole pile, add all the Bloody/Burning/Fast/Plague Templates you want to, and then cast Command Undead on any of the Undead that go past your Animate Dead Max HD bucket. Presto, instant army.
Also, figure out a way to get this spell Blood Money to help offset the your Onyx Gem costs. Animate Dead is expensive, and this spell helps a lot.
I don't wish to necessarily maximize. I only asked if it is possible to take that feat under the rules.
Speaking about the Soul Warden Prestige Class, someone said that it should be.
So, since the Spirit Warden's ability seems to stack with the Soul Warden's ability, a Spirit Warden should be able to take it, or not? This is the one thing I asked.
A spirit warden certainly can't take command undead. They just don't have channel negative energy which is what the command undead feat demands. Rebuke spirits specifically says that it's positive energy.
A soul warden also says that it uses positive energy:
At 1st level, a soul warden gains the power to harm undead with positive energy. This ability functions exactly like a cleric’s ability to channel positive energy to deal damage to undead (but not to heal living creatures), and counts as channel energy for the purposes of qualifying for feats or determining effects that rely on channel energy. A soul warden uses his class level as his effective cleric level when channeling damage. He can channel damage a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. Soul warden levels stack with levels in any class that grants channel energy for the purpose of determining the number of damage dice his channel energy ability deals to undead (if any).
Now, if you had some weird ability that damaged undead with negative energy soul warden might stack with that by the wording, but it clearly does not provide the ability to channel negative energy on its own.
Just as a reminder, this is the prereq for the command undead feat:
Prerequisites: Channel negative energy class feature.
Channel energy alone doesn't meet this prereq; you need the ability to channel negative energy in particular. Even the versatile channeler feat won't help since a spirit warden never gets to make the choice whether to channel negative or positive energy, they're locked to positive.