BigNorseWolf |
5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Weapon Specialization (Ex) - 3rd Level
You gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat for each weapon type this class grants you proficiency with. For weapons you have gained proficiency with only through the injection expert class feature, rather than the normal Weapon Specialization benefit, you instead add half your character level to damage you deal with those weapons.
So how exactly does this parse?
Half Level option
You gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat for each weapon type this class grants you proficiency with
Choose one weapon type (small arms, longarms, heavy weapons, etc.). You gain specialization in that weapon type, which means you add your character level to damage with the selected weapon type, or half your character level for small arms or operative melee weapons.
The types of weapons are longarms, small arms, heavy weapons, simple melee, advanced melee, unique etc. The only type of weapons you can get specialization with are Basic melee weapons and small arms. So you don't gain weapon specialization with your caustolance.
Yes Option
For weapons you have gained proficiency with only through the injection expert class feature, rather than the normal Weapon Specialization benefit, you instead add half your character level to damage you deal with those weapons.
You have proficiency with longarms through your feat/level of soldier/archtype etc. Therefore "if you..." returns as false , so you get the full weapon specilization benefit.
For the no option that should probably read "for weapons you have gained specilization with..." Because right now those clauses are a bit at odds.
Belafon |
You would get full character level to damage.
If you had only biohacker levels and took Weapon Proficency: Longarms as one of your feats, you would get full character level to damage. There's no difference between that and getting Weapon Proficiency: Longarms as a soldier bonus feat.
Yes
OK then. You get weapon specialization with the caustolance.
Are you only proficient with the caustolance through the injection expert class feature?
No, I am also proficient with all longarms, which includes the caustolance.
OK then. You get full character level to damage. Doesn't matter how you got that proficiency.
HammerJack |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Requoting biohacker weapon specialization for convenience:
You gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat for each weapon type this class grants you proficiency with. For weapons you have gained proficiency with only through the injection expert class feature, rather than the normal Weapon Specialization benefit, you instead add half your character level to damage you deal with those weapons.
1. The biohacker class grants proficiency with the caustolance. Our condition to apply weapon specialization at all is met.
2. At biohacker 3/soldier 0, the caustolance is a weapon that you only have proficiency with via Injection Expert. So 1/2 level damage.
3. Picking up another level and becoming biohacker 3/soldier 1, this character gains proficiency that is not from Injection Expert. Caustolance is still a weapon that the biohacker class granted proficiency in. Caustolance is not a weapon that this character only has proficiency in from Injection Expert. Therefore full level to damage.
Since the No option that puts too much weight on parsing the words Weapon Type interferes with step 2, as well as with step 3, it seems less plausible that we are intended to read it that way.
Garretmander |
Requoting biohacker weapon specialization for convenience:
Quote:You gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat for each weapon type this class grants you proficiency with. For weapons you have gained proficiency with only through the injection expert class feature, rather than the normal Weapon Specialization benefit, you instead add half your character level to damage you deal with those weapons.1. The biohacker class grants proficiency with the caustolance. Our condition to apply weapon specialization at all is met.
2. At biohacker 3/soldier 0, the caustolance is a weapon that you only have proficiency with via Injection Expert. So 1/2 level damage.
3. Picking up another level and becoming biohacker 3/soldier 1, this character gains proficiency that is not from Injection Expert. Caustolance is still a weapon that the biohacker class granted proficiency in. Caustolance is not a weapon that this character only has proficiency in from Injection Expert. Therefore full level to damage.
Since the No option that puts too much weight on parsing the words Weapon Type interferes with step 2, as well as with step 3, it seems less plausible that we are intended to read it that way.
I agree with this. (and FAQ'd just in case)
Belafon |
While I agree that the language isn't Asmodeus-proof, I definitely think you're reading a distinction that isn't intended to be there. Every class uses the phrase "You gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat for each weapon type this class grants you proficiency with." It's template language.
If the word "type" is critical in this context, then it is impossible to have Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization with a Special Weapon.
breithauptclan |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is it normal for a 1 level dip in a class that grants proficiency in weapons to also allow the primary class's weapon specialization to apply to those weapons?
Example, (Technomancer 4 / Solarian 1) gets proficiency in Advanced Melee weapons from Solarian and weapon specialization for Basic Melee weapons and Small Arms. My understanding is that this character wouldn't get weapon specialization for Advanced Melee weapons until either Solarian level 3 or taking a feat to get it.
Why would it be intended to be otherwise for Biohacker? RAI at the very least would be that the Biohacker weapon specialization only gives the 1/2 level specialization for a caustolance. Soldier 1 wouldn't change that.
Yes, you may be technically correct on the parsing of RAW that there does exist a loophole to allow full specialization for it. And there ain't no correct like technically correct.
Nefreet |
Example, (Technomancer 4 / Solarian 1) gets proficiency in Advanced Melee weapons from Solarian and weapon specialization for Basic Melee weapons and Small Arms. My understanding is that this character wouldn't get weapon specialization for Advanced Melee weapons until either Solarian level 3 or taking a feat to get it.
I believe you are correct. Such a character would need to take Versatile Specialization.
Why would it be intended to be otherwise for Biohacker?
I think Hammerjack's breakdown above explains why about as well as is possible.
BigNorseWolf |
While I agree that the language isn't Asmodeus-proof, I definitely think you're reading a distinction that isn't intended to be there. Every class uses the phrase "You gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat for each weapon type this class grants you proficiency with." It's template language.
If the word "type" is critical in this context, then it is impossible to have Weapon Focus or Weapon Specialization with a Special Weapon.
No other class gives you specialization with that class based on a dip. A soldier 1 mystic 3 still only has specialization in small arms and basic melee weapons. If it's boiler plate, the answer would be no.
HammerJack |
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I don't think that the boilerplate applies, since no other class has an equivalent "have proficiency in part of the weapon group, and have part of specialization until you take another feat (on its own or from a second class)" to compare to. It's noting that there are no other oranges in your apple orchard.