Greetings.
Just another thing I was curious on with regards to paladins and their personalities. Now I've always assumed since they live by their code of conduct and duties that they would commonly maintain a quite serious personality, even when relaxing with fellows which I would find quite boring. Could you have Paladins whom still remains devoted to their code and duties yet maintain a fun, unique and enjoyable personality, only becoming serious when the need calls.
For example, the company just finished a quest and the Paladin of Iomedae of whom loves a strong pint of ale decides they should go celebrate a couple ales at the local tavern.
My main question overall is how flexible can one be with a Paladin's personality and outside duty life-style.
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Do you know any cops? Especially really good by the book ones? Ask them how they balance their job with their off duty personality.
Lawful Stupid seems to be the common one that some play, and also the biggest cause of stigma for Paladins. Yes, I count it as a Paladin personality, but I find its existence as a concept to be very sad.
I think any kind of person can be a Paladin, but their personality should not override their willingness to uphold the oaths they have sworn, and thus I would consider a weak-willed Paladin to be an oddity indeed.
The GM usually decides what does or does not violate a paladins code of conduct (CoC). This often leads to paladins being paladins being played as lawful stupid because a fallen paladin is behind the power curve when compared to other martial classes. So in short, that wouldn't be a problem unless the GM says it is.
I usually am not overly strict on the paladin CoC when I GM, but others are very strict. I wouldn't have any problem with a paladin being played as you have described. Even if the said PC was a borderline alcoholic (or not so borderline) I would just not that as one chaotic trait that would probably be balanced out by other lawful traits. I don't think that every personality trait that a paladin has needs to be lawful, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.
As a final thought, most paladins have a high charisma score, you'd think that this would mean many paladins would have traits that make them liked by others and not a stick in the mud. Then again charisma isn't a measure of how popular a character is, although influencing others, somthing charisma does suggests that it could be part of a charisma score.
Paladins do not need to be stick in the mud, lawful stupid hard ares anymore then they need to be longsword unseeing heavily armored mounted knights.
Another perfect example that just came to me, have you ever seen Bones?
Agent Booth is a perfect example
I've played both types of paladins (more serious, and more relaxed) and a nice option for playing a not-so-stick-n-the-mud paladin is indirectly: my one paladin had an axebeak animal companion (affectionately named Beaky) and Beaky had a slightly naughty bird-like streak in her (chewing on things, liking some people and disliking others, etc). The interaction of the animal companion with the world is as much part of the personality and enjoyment of the paladin as the main character him/herself. :)
Another perfect example that just came to me, have you ever seen Bones?
Agent Booth is a perfect example
That is an excellent example.
The stern, stick-in-the-mud paladin archetype is not only unnecessary, but I figure it ought to be fairly rare. Back in the old days of 1/2e, a paladin's most restrictive ability score requirement was a 17, and even now, they tend to be high charisma characters. A high charisma character like that ought to inspire friendship and loyalty from those around him, not grumbling and annoyance.
A person with a 17 charisma, if nothing else, ought to be fun to hang out with at a party.
In The Deed of Paksenarrion one of the paladin trainers is described as a fun loving person much as to what you describe.
Many comic-book superhero personalities also come close to what you are looking for.
Eddings' series The Elenium and The Tamuli focus on Paladins, with an (mostly) all Paladin party.
David Weber's excellent, though oft-ignored, War God series (starting with War God's Own) is one of the best Paladin series, though Weber treats the Paladin as more of a prestige class and the main character starts out as more of a Conan-type barbarian.
Eddings' series The Elenium and The Tamuli focus on Paladins, with an (mostly) all Paladin party.
Just no, those guys are more D&D style clerics. They are in no way paladins. Just because they are knights of a church does not make them paladins.
Just no, those guys are more D&D style clerics. They are in no way paladins. Just because they are knights of a church does not make them paladins.
Eddings' series The Elenium and The Tamuli focus on Paladins, with an (mostly) all Paladin party.
[shrugs] Eddings wizards and clerics didn't fit into the D&D mold either. His characters in those series were Lawful Good (though not Lawful Stupid), holy magic-using, armored knights.
He called them Paladins, so I do as well.
He never once calls them paladins. He calls them Church knights. And his casters are D&D clerics, they must have a god to cast spells, the church knights serve two gods is all.
Some can cast spells pretty well, some can't in game terms they would be fighter/clerics. Only one I can recall from the books would ever be anything like a paladin, they where underhanded, lied, used dirty tricks and all around fighting men with little in the way of a code.
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To OP: Yep. Paladins absolutely can be fun, relaxed, and the life of the party. Paladins that don't have the cultural baggage that stereotypically gets piled on them go off and carry on with prostitutes even(but should be mindful to ensure they're not being exploited or otherwise in a bad spot). Paladins can gamble(if it's legal). Paladins can cuss up a storm. Paladins can dance dirty. As long as they're not breaking their code, they're good. Now their code might prohibit some of those things, but that's going to be a specific cultural or deity related thing, not something that's true for paladins across the board.
One of my favorite paladin stories involves one that was played with a personality mostly like the "Brave and the Bold" version of Aquaman. If he were played by BRIAN BLESSED.
One of the paladins from my NPC folder is pretty much comes across as a moody goth most of the time.
Dhampir paladin in our CC campaign comes across as dutiful but plenty sardonic.
My tiefling paladin was innocent and naive in a lot of ways, steadfastly refusing to let the cynicism of others around him erode his idealism and compassion.
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Just starting a game this Friday. The Paladin that is going to be played, will have a personality akin to Duddly Do-right.
Just starting a game this Friday. The Paladin that is going to be played, will have a personality akin to Duddly Do-right.
...And will be tied to the railroad tracks shortly after.
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Shiba, the Phoenix clan Kami from L5R strikes me as a good model for a Paladin. During the war with Fu Leng (The BBEG of the L5R Universe) Shiba sought the aid of the Tribe of Isawa, who constantly refused. When the need became great, Shiba bowed before Isawa and promised to protect his people. Only then did Isawa agree to fight. But by bowing, Shiba threw away all pride and arrogance.
As I see it, your three classic paladin models are the three Grail knights, the ones who supposedly actually found the Holy Grail: Galahad, Parsival, and Lancelot.
Galahad is the holy knight who's pretty much alien in his perfection. He's basically an angel in human form and is always doing the right thing because God is telling him everything to do. He can't be tempted because he's basically saintly and perfect and pretty much inhuman.
Parsival is the innocent knight whose goodness is his innocence. He's not so much dumb as a male Pollyanna who believes in the inherent goodness of almost everything to the point where that innocent faith is his most powerful weapon. He can't be tempted because he's too innocent and chivalrous. If the succubus tarts herself up as a nice lady, Parsival will treat her as a nice lady and be completely oblivious to all attempts at seduction and double entendres.
Finally, you've got Lancelot, the great but fallible knight who's seeking atonement. Lancelot is capable of making mistakes and falling from human frailty. He's also able to understand his misdeeds and atone for them.
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Just starting a game this Friday. The Paladin that is going to be played, will have a personality akin to Duddly Do-right....And will be tied to the railroad tracks shortly after.
I have thought of it.
Personally I think alot of folks get hung up on the idea of what a "Paladin" is, or the idea of what "lawful good" can an can not be.
The best examples for what you are looking for is no further away than a simple google search because Paladins were based on the Knights Templar of the Crusades. In fact the conflicts of interest and divided loyalties they faced are an excellent reference for a more in depth examination of both how "stupid" they were, and who they balanced the needs of their different roles.
A great movie reference for you is, "Kingdom of Heaven" with Orlando Bloom.