2e how would you design it for 2e? what could it look like?
In my opinion, you can change absolutely nothing and it'll work just fine.
The +1 bonus every level should account for Save/Attacks/DC increase. The feats every 2 levels, chosen among the level 20 ones, should increase greatly character power.The increase in hit points should not be high enough to cause issue with neverending fights.
If you want to be thorough, you should add new spell levels, and only open them for heightened versions of level 1-9 spells. And maybe a new grade of Potency/Striking Runes between level 25 and 30.
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mythic should run much better in PF2.
I hope they redo Wrath of the Righteous for PF2 with mythic rules. I thought the AP was great. Great story. Fun modules. Pretty amazing AP with a truly mythic storyline and goal.
But the PF1 mythic rules made it unplayable for me as a DM. It took way too much work to create a challenge. PF2 would not have that problem. I'd really like Mythic Rules for PF2 and PF2 version of Wrath of the Righteous. It has amazing potential that a balanced set of Mythic rules would make useable.
|
I recall a long time ago seeing someone take a stab at Mythic rules for 2nd edition her in the forums, and despite it making an assumption I wasn't particularly happy with (assuming Mythic was only at 20+) when I looked at the material I could tell how much was put into it and if I was willing to make that concession it was a great start and framework. If you are thinking of throwing something similar together I would certainly take a look at it.
Mythic Advancement: Everything you need to play and GM for levels 21-25 (by manBearScientist)
Alternately, I'd started coming up with a loose framework of concepts that would change the 'flavor' of play a little bit.
One relatively simple thing, Based on certain paths chosen, change the base mechanic for critical successes so that for certain rolls, rolling a 19 or 20 count as bumping up your tier of success by one instead of just a 20. Having it apply to for instance 1 of the 3 types of saves would for instance differentiate the PCs from one another by different choices. You might have it apply to one of several types of attack rolls (melee, ranged weapon, unarmed attack, spell attack) Another potential was the idea of having your mythic tier added to something that is already a success to potentially turn it into a critical success quicker than the normal +10. The idea/flavor being that mythic characters tend to have more critical successes than your more mundane heroes. (even at lower levels)
Then combining it with free archetype, or double class feats variants would help make them stand out for their (even early) level, and potentially even racial paragon. You could even give them a free boost from being Mythic that can be added to one of your attributes, such as the one from your class or ancestry , which you could exempt that individual boost from normal player creation attribute maximums to allow a 'Hercules' or 'Einstein' characters to give them a slight edge even at the start of the game. Letting them start even a slight bit over the top.
This creates the flavor that mythic is made up of greater (supply) of awesome situations, but it isn't necessarily a practical guarantee that would result from always being several levels above any challenges the met.
So I think you can do the above really easily, changing the flavor of the story, placing them one step further on the stairway to destined to greatness, without however 'too' massively changing the balance too far. (yes it is giving them some bits of advantages, for generally free)
If you are willing to go (or want specific) with some more numerical (and mechanical) complexity, there is more you could do. However, providing Mythic bonuses that stack, and extra tiers like levels all produce some definite interactions with level and expected challenge ratings for instance.
Mythic tier's could potentially be an extra set of levels that can otherwise be stacked on other modifiers, having a Mythic type. So at Mythic tier 1, you get a +1 Mythic bonus to all AC, DC, etc. However, that would keep numbers similar, if you added your mythic tier to level, but it would push spell levels of spell casters down, so it would complicate trying to find equal challenges. It might be interesting if the mythic bonuses only affected creatures of higher level than yourself, or other creatures with mythic tiers. Something like that might make fighting foes of higher level easier, while not necessarily making those lower level foes being irrelevant. However, it does pose a complexity if you don't always apply your mythic bonus or all of you mythic bonus based on your target's level and mythic state.
Another way that might work, but likely require some examination, tweaking and such would be if Mythic was a 'free-archytype' variant that granted you a set of 'more powerful' archetype feats that would be set to generally power up your characters but only about 1/5 of your total level or so, and each dedication would be a 'path' and your extra power comes from the mythic path feats you select from your Free feats you get from your Free-Mythic-Archetype feats every 2 levels.
It is important to understand that Mythic unless you limit it to only past levels 20, would otherwise potentially have significant effect on challenge ratings if anything from the 1-10 tiers turns into generally wide spanning numeric adjustments.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Not sure about as far as going past level 20, but I've been working on some ideas for mythic adjacent stuff for a campaign idea where the players are all demigods out to ascend to true godhood.
Rather than mess around with actual combat power, my focus on capturing that divine, mythic feeling, was more akin to expanding out of combat abilities. Most of these came in the form of really powerful skill feats and the like; for example, an earth demigod could create a bridge of stone to cross a chasm as a 10 minute nature activity, or a forge god could create a level appropriate rune in an hour, provided they have enough materials to pay the full cost of the items. Such abilities are obviously powerful, but dont futz around with thr combat numbers, which is honestly the main issue with 1e mythic rules
Free archetype variant seems pretty mythic to me without affecting the balance too too much.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mathematical mythic would make zero sense. Mythic wasn't a "past 20" progression as much as it was a parallel special level progression. You were "level 5 paladin, level 1 mythic" in pf1, so in order to "translate" you'd need the ability to gain mythic at any level in pf2. And that makes zero sense (it'd break the level progression, and essentially just be level 6).
As I said in the WotR conversion channels, I could see a horizontal mythic, with features and abilities gained from unique mythic archetypes. But what would make them different from regular archetypes, beside theme, is not clear (and they would not push your strength up that much). Probably just the fact that they'd come via "mythic feat" slots gained in addition to normal feats, but even then, 1e mythic was event-based rather than level-based, and that's not a great way to plan a character. Other options (mythic class archetypes, relic-based mythic powers, and so on) could be explored.
Ultimately, no offense intended, JJ isn't a designer and doesn't handle the rules part that much, so I wouldn't rely on his statements in terms of rule systems. Especially since several designers often came up saying Mythic was a mistake, even back in 1e.
Mathematical mythic would make zero sense. Mythic wasn't a "past 20" progression as much as it was a parallel special level progression. You were "level 5 paladin, level 1 mythic" in pf1, so in order to "translate" you'd need the ability to gain mythic at any level in pf2. And that makes zero sense (it'd break the level progression, and essentially just be level 6).
As I said in the WotR conversion channels, I could see a horizontal mythic, with features and abilities gained from unique mythic archetypes. But what would make them different from regular archetypes, beside theme, is not clear (and they would not push your strength up that much). Probably just the fact that they'd come via "mythic feat" slots gained in addition to normal feats, but even then, 1e mythic was event-based rather than level-based, and that's not a great way to plan a character. Other options (mythic class archetypes, relic-based mythic powers, and so on) could be explored.
Ultimately, no offense intended, JJ isn't a designer and doesn't handle the rules part that much, so I wouldn't rely on his statements in terms of rule systems. Especially since several designers often came up saying Mythic was a mistake, even back in 1e.
This is actually why my stab ar pseudo mythic rules worked basically as something that can be bolted on at any level, to kinda emulate the og, but implemented in a way that doesn't directly change math.
This is actually why my stab ar pseudo mythic rules worked basically as something that can be bolted on at any level, to kinda emulate the og, but implemented in a way that doesn't directly change math.Mathematical mythic would make zero sense. Mythic wasn't a "past 20" progression as much as it was a parallel special level progression. You were "level 5 paladin, level 1 mythic" in pf1, so in order to "translate" you'd need the ability to gain mythic at any level in pf2. And that makes zero sense (it'd break the level progression, and essentially just be level 6).
As I said in the WotR conversion channels, I could see a horizontal mythic, with features and abilities gained from unique mythic archetypes. But what would make them different from regular archetypes, beside theme, is not clear (and they would not push your strength up that much). Probably just the fact that they'd come via "mythic feat" slots gained in addition to normal feats, but even then, 1e mythic was event-based rather than level-based, and that's not a great way to plan a character. Other options (mythic class archetypes, relic-based mythic powers, and so on) could be explored.
Ultimately, no offense intended, JJ isn't a designer and doesn't handle the rules part that much, so I wouldn't rely on his statements in terms of rule systems. Especially since several designers often came up saying Mythic was a mistake, even back in 1e.
Yeah, but the issue becomes making it feel mythic without actually changing the math.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would prefer it to be more open ended that being a class/archetype/etc. Maybe have some feat chains but I would prefer the history of the character to inform the choices more than just what is powerful.
Similarly I wouldn't want simple combat prowess but something that goes beyond the mortal realm and in thematic ways.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If I was making Mythic for PF2E, I'd start by figuring out the goals I want to achieve with it.
- Firstly, a 20th level character with full Mythic ranks should be about as powerful as a CL 25 threat, thus enabling ultra-high powered games.
- Secondly, Mythic ranks should be available throughout the game, as they were in PF1E, enabling narratives built around Mythic destiny to be incorporated into a normal campaign.
- Thirdly, a Mythic character should feel different to a character of otherwise comparable strength.
- Fourth, and this one might be controversial, but I'd probably keep the Mythic material completely separate from the existing Class Feat and/or free archetype feat slots.
For sake of balance, we'd make 5 ranks of Mythic. Your character's effective level for the purpose of game balance would be equal to their level + Mythic rank. So a 12th level, 2nd Mythic rank PC would be treated as 14th level for the purpose of encounter building.
Where this gets tricky is getting the Mythic ranks to line up as to not completely throw out the game balance. It's also worth noting that, under usual game balance expectations, you'd need to increase proficiency in basically everything by the fifth rank in order to have appropriately strong characters at 25.
We'd also need to find solutions to the Incapacitate problem, and a few other issues that come from things that care about level.
I would prefer it to be more open ended that being a class/archetype/etc. Maybe have some feat chains but I would prefer the history of the character to inform the choices more than just what is powerful.
Similarly I wouldn't want simple combat prowess but something that goes beyond the mortal realm and in thematic ways.
That's my ideal. My aforementioned houserule is like, a paragraph, since I want it to be really open ended. Not really good for a published book, mind you, but good enough for a home game.
One of my jumping off points for what a not op mythic might look like is corrin from fire emblem fates. The dragon vein abilities let you reshape the battlemaps like making/breaking bridges, changing the wind currents, make cover to shield you from AOE attacks, etc. Since not even normal mages can do this in that game, it felt pretty mythic, but didn't make you op from a numbers standpoint
I'd actually rather make stuff to increase your level a seperate thing; epic leveling can be as easynas tacking on extra levels to each class
- Firstly, a 20th level character with full Mythic ranks should be about as powerful as a CL 25 threat, thus enabling ultra-high powered games.
Issue. In order to be the same Mythic as PF1, you need to be able to apply it to low or mid level games as well.
How do you reconcile a full mythic lv20 character being as powerful as a lv25 creature with the need of a mythic low level character still working within the expected level balance, without mythic being just a level up?Reminder: counting it as a level means delaying proficiency increases and features.
Honestly, I don't have a clean answer to that. Or at least, I do have an answer, but I don't know if it's a perfect solution.
Mythic 'levels' would need to work more or less like regular levels. Your proficiency would be counted as level + mythic ranks + proficiency grade, your Mythic Path would provide some HP + CON, etc.
All Mythic Paths would include armour, attack, save, spellcasting, and skill proficiency increases, but different paths would offer them at different priorities. So the Archmage path would have an early spellcasting proficiency increase but later armour and save increases, the Guardian path would have armor and Fort increases early, etc. Each path would offer a 'mythic skill' at 1st, 3rd and 5th rank, which increases a skill's proficiency by one grade and also prevents crit fails.
The more I think about it, the better it seems to offer the core boost twice. For example, the Archmage Path would offer an increase to your spellcasting proficiency at 1st rank, and again at 5th rank. If your spellcasting was already at Mythic proficiency, you'd get some other bonus instead. Guardian would offer defense at 1st and 5th, Warmaster would offer attack at 1st and 5th, etc.
The Trickster path would break this mold slightly, instead just offering five mythic skills, and maybe two Reflex or Will boosts.
This would mean that any martial could eventually get Mythic armour, or Mythic weapon proficiency, but Champions or Fighters wouldn't be gimped by choosing the Path that hyper-focused on their existing strengths.
In terms of balance, treating level + mythic as your effective level is basically what Mythic did to balance in the first place, and it would keep the math clean. Mostly.
Keeping mythic separate is a solid idea as it keeps things fairly flexible and inclusive with content added afterward.
However, I don't see much of a way around the math. 1e Mythic largely failed in the math portion. It would be a bit unusual for things we have now, but I think mythic should add to level and be a separate track. Otherwise, Level 30 foes will be impossible to deal with
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't really see around having mythic be at least partially additional numbers added to proficiency. It won't matter if you can swing 6 times a round at 0 MAP if you still need a 20 or higher to hit that level 30 enemy, and it's merest shrug causes you to critically fail a saving throw.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I dunno, I wonder if it would really be all that bad for Mythic Tiers to actually just add +1 to all your rolls like a level would - by incorporating the system you are making the assumption that a character with mythic tiers is going to be stronger than one without them, and that's a simple way to do it. A 30 creature should be a difficult but possible final boss for a 20/5 party and you can't really do that without some +numbers somewhere.
Also in terms of being able to craft higher level gear, Mythic ranks would need to be added to level.
If characters are going to the equivalent of 25th level, they'll probably need +4 weapon and armor potency, Superior Striking, and Superior Resilient.
As a rough guess, +4 weapon would be Lvl 22, +4 armor at Lvl 23, Superior Striking at 24, and Superior Resilient at 25.
You should also probably add Mythic ranks to a character's level for the purpose of resisting Incapacitation and other spell effects. Otherwise you get weird situations where a 14/3 character dies outright to PWK, despite effectively being as strong (if not stronger) than a character who would shrug it off.
Also, I think there should be 6 mythic tiers, rather than 10. Jacobs mentioned that they would want the player to cap out at 26, and I rather like that.
With few tiers, it concentrates the fun bits into a smaller range. Each tier should be significant.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly I'd be happy with 6 classes that you could only take levels 21-25, and do away with early level mythic stuff.
But I think they would always want it to be available to all levels of characters, because stuff you can only use post 20th level would have a vanishingly small target audience.
That said, I wonder if mythic itself is pretty de-prioritized in general for 2e. Lots of high-theme books like Occult Adventures they could do instead, and if they have good themes are likely to add stuff like classes, feats for all levels, subsystems, and maybe creatures that even a niche/genre bucket is likely to have a bigger pool of people than mythic.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mythic seems like it would be a really easy system to bring into PF2, as the structure of it is already basically in place.
Mythic would work like a free archetype that players gain when they unlock the various mythic tiers. It wouldn't be a "beyond 20" system, as the original mythic wasn't like that either. It would be unlocks every 2 levels, going from tier 1 - 10. The bones could look like:
- 2nd/T1: Basic mythic traits + Base mythic archetype ability
- 4th/T2: Mythic Archetype feat option
- 6th/T3: Expanded mythic traits
- 8th/T4: Mythic Archetype feat option
- 10th/T5: Expanded mythic traits + Advanced mythic archetype ability
- 12th/T6: Mythic Archetype feat option
- 14th/T7: Expanded mythic traits
- 16th/T8: Mythic Archetype feat option
- 18th/T9: Expanded mythic traits + Final mythic archetype ability
- 20th/T10: Mythic Archetype feat option
Just like previous versions of mythic, there would be a handful of Mythic Archetypes which players could access. You could have 1 for each casting tradition, then a few for different martial approaches, 1 for skill monkeys specifically, then an all rounder for a total of maybe 8.
- The Archmage (Arcane)
- The Hierophant (Divine)
- The Avatar (Primal)
- The Eldritch (Occult)
- The Commander (Something like the Marshal, but apted up)
- The Warlord (Lots of scary martial melee abilities)
- The Silent (Ranged martial, sneak attacky, stealth and movement)
- The Trickster (Skills, Dex and Chr focused abilities)
OR base the names off of Harrow suits but keep the broad themes roughly the same.
Then add abilities of questionable to taste.
|
One thing I never understood in PF1 Mythic was what the heck a Level N < 20/Mythic Tier x < 10 was supposed to be.
I mean, Level 20/Mythic 10 I at least understand. Its Hercules or Xena, somebody who is either literally a demigod or at least can go toe to toe with one (mechanically, of course, it was far more akin to a full god :-(. and a fairly powerful one at that. As one guide put it, if your character alone couldn't kill a Demon Lord in a single round you were doing something wrong :-( )
But what is the fictional equivalent of a L8/Tier 2 character?
In what ways is it supposed to be weaker than a straight L10 character and in what ways is it stronger (using the absolute fiction that Paizo sold that 1 Mythic Tier was about equal to 1 character level in power)?
The only answer I ever received that seemed even vaguely correct to me was that, in theory, mythic tiers added to the length of the adventuring day. While the characters were more powerful they really shone in being able to handle lots of encounters in a row.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would have a special class of Archetypes you take at Level 20 if Mythic rules are in use, that cover five levels (20-25) and give you special epic/mythic tier abilities.
The archetypes would be things like "Archmage" and such that reflect certain types of characters pushed to Mythic status-- the goal being to avoid the design team being on the hook for five additional levels of every class they make. You would start with a pretty basic list, one for casters, one for warriors 'proper' and etc, but then that list could be expanded with more archetypes until Paizo's feel they've hit the right number of options.
Strictly speaking, you don't need any real math fixers or anything, but you could conceivably add a 'Mythic' Proficiency on top of Legendary, and then let the archetypes advance certain proficiency by one tier (so Fighters go up to Mythic prof, while Rogues get Legendary) along the way up. Otherwise, the abilities would emphasize powers that convey the nearing-god-like power.
You would introduce Demigod tier foes in the same book, CL 25-29, with 'real gods' theoretically being after that, but unstatted. Any additional runes or tiers of prof introduced would have a corresponding bump in the math of these new foes.
Trying to slap on extra numbers just muddies something which is already there, and also goes against PF2E's design goal of options that increase utility over simply increasing numbers.
I imagine this would be a specific exception to that framework.
Also, I don’t think this will be just increasing numbers. That would be the least important part, only there to make the math against a level 30 creature work. Mostly I think we’d see new abilities, possibly running off an additional resource pool like focus, except not explicitly magical.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
But what is the fictional equivalent of a L8/Tier 2 character?In what ways is it supposed to be weaker than a straight L10 character and in what ways is it stronger (using the absolute fiction that Paizo sold that 1 Mythic Tier was about equal to 1 character level in power)?
Those are two different things. Fluff vs crunch.
The fluff of an L8/M2 character is, in my mind, like a young Hercules. Not having yet fought the lion or cleaned the stables. Perhaps he already has the strength to carry the world for Atlas for a little while, but he hasn't realized it, so he effectively self limits. Justifiable, perhaps, because Paizo refers to these as mythic paths, reflecting your journey toward final realization of your full mythic potential. Baby Hercules killed a snake in his crib; doesn't mean he was ready to punch a river into submission.
The crunch is wholly different. Mythic in PF1 not only granted more numbers, it also represented hard tiers e.g. overcoming creatures with mythic resistance or saving vs. mythic spells. In addition, you were getting access to a second path of new abilities. Theoretically, you could simulate this by tacking on additional feats during leveling; you get granted new options and at a faster pace.
Mechanically, it means that against a similarly leveled threat:
- Your base ability to overcome it through raw numbers was improved with bigger numbers
- Your flexibility in dealing with unexpected challenges was also increased e.g. taking the "I don't need VSM for casting" mythic abilities as an archmage left you able to deal with silence, grappling, and lost pouches for your casting.
So, taking a stab at this, I would introduce a new trait, Mythic. It can be applied to a number of things. It could optionally have a number as well, indicating the Mythic rank involved. To perform a Mythic action requires meeting the indicated Mythic rank (defaults to 1). Want to cast a Mythic 2 spell, you need to be Mythic rank 2. If you are opposing an effect with the Mythic trait, you either need to meet the rank requirement or else have your degree of success reduced by one.
As for your mythic abilities, you'd gain them as you gain mythic ranks, and mythic ranks, as in PF1, could be gained independently from regular levels.
The thing about Mythic adding numerical bonuses is that it expands the use of things somewhat. You could, for instance, have an artifact grant temporary mythic tiers to fight the final boss. The added numbers would add to the feeling of strength that a character has gained.
I see Mythic and levels manifesting as two different things. Levels are a character's skill, experience, and talent. Mythic is raw power. I think it is fun to have a character that is inexperienced but still has a boost from their divine blood (or whatever).
Having a "Mythic Bonus" to all rolls is just a really simple, straight forward way of doing things and I don't see what we need anything else.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OMG, we'd need 21+ level alchemy & traps to create too. :O
I don't think numbers will be as much an issue.
21+ could simply add +2/level instead of +1 (or whatever's need to keep the power curve on its trajectory) w/o treading too much on classes.
One thing is, a guiding principle of PF2 is that abilities don't simply give numbers, but have some cool effect too. There'd have to be scores of cool effects (if not a hundred+) to cover all the builds, all while remaining balanced on DPR, given & received, (et al).
Such an endeavor would take much more effort, and be above most of the market's level of play, so it'll likely be some time off, like when a large portion of the customer base has PCs at 20th.
|
|
I'll admit up front that I'm not really in the target audience for Mythic. I played the PF1 Adventure Path and the GM had to do HUGE amounts of work to make it vaguely challenging. The vast majority of the time I'd have been happier to have been playing normal heroes with the bad guys just scaled down a little.
Judging from the reception and reviews, I think that I'm a long, long way from the only one to think PF1 Mythic a failed experiment.
That said:
Mythic just seems like a really hard sell to me and I hope Paizo passes (at least for quite a long while).
If I wanted to run really high powered campaigns (where the characters fight Gods) PF2 already provides 2 really, really easy solutions
1) Just make normal people in world cap out at level 12 or 15 and then lower the numbers for some existing monsters a little. Facing (for example) a Spawn of Rovagug seems pretty darn mythic to me and that is only a CR 20 or 25 encounter. Slightly weaken the Tarrasque and it is a fine mythic battle for L20 characters
2) Just do what people here are suggesting. Add extra levels using the current progressions, maybe tailor some mythic feats for your group. But the level 20 stuff is already pretty darn mythic to me, getting to choose 2 or 3 of these and adjusting the numbers really should be enough.
I just finished running Age of Ashes and the game already felt pretty mythic to me at the really high levels.
A monk head locking a gargantuan dragon, for example. Or a fighter explaining the finer points of Arcana to the Gold Dragon ruler of Hermea
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There's also the matter of Mythic Power and Surge that I haven't seen mentioned all that much, which were how you fueled all your fun powers like never-dying and skipping over VSM when chucking Acid Arrow. I personally would just make it a second Focus Pool and be done with that, but the paths seem to be the main topic at hand, so I might as well throw my 2 cents in since that's what's happening here it seems! I think a single checkmark/box on a proficiency that made it "Mythic" and would give it a +2 or 3 on top of all other proficiency bonuses. So you can be Mythic Trained and have level+4, up to Mythic Legendary at level+10. Keeps it simple and scalable, not too wily for most encounters to be unbalanced, but enough of a bump that you can feel it through your whole career. When you get those Mythic bumps, and what they can go to, would be determined by your Path/Class/Whatever-the-heck, so Archmage would give one to spellcasting, Champion (the PF1 martial expert, go figure) would give one to all weapon proficiencies you're at least Trained in. You'd get at least 2 skill Mythic boosts, but Trickster would give more because why not? Mythic feats are straight forward I'd hope, either every rank or every other rank based on what the max rank IS.
I want the rules written again, just because I have a campaign idea that almost necessitates it, but they also just look cool.
Perhaps mythic is a free archetype that has essentially 5 feats you can gain. Each path could have a special action that does something cool while also enhancing your normal class
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
How do you reconcile a full mythic lv20 character being as powerful as a lv25 creature with the need of a mythic low level character still working within the expected level balance, without mythic being just a level up?
Do you need to? "Mythic characters are more powerful" is sort of a default assumption of the concept, so a level 5 mythic party that's overpowered for challenges made for a normal level 5 party seems working as intended.
As opposed to mythic rules or perhaps in addition to them, I would rather see Paizo tackle epic leveling for levels beyond 20. The math seems simple enough but it would be interesting to see epic level feats and class features plus epic spells/items. Plus of course more higher level monsters!
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to point that JJ didn't say "2e version of mythic is required", they said that there needs to be 2e version of rules for "level 21-25" player characters before there is point of doing level 26-30 monsters :P Since if level 20 is max character level, anything above 25 is just auto tpk and pointless outside of "wow super high level statblocks are cool"
I feel sad whenever someone writes pretty hostile sounding post based on someone quoting another person out of context :(
Anyway, I think best part about mythic rules was allowing players to do really silly things you wouldn't normally be able to do(like run through walls without problem) and that it was modular and wasn't just "at level 20 progression". There IS value to allowing level 1-5 characters do thing that flavorwise feel powerful even if mechanic wise they aren't that op, like throwing boulders. Problem was yeah the balance wise because mythic pretty much on purpose broke the math exponentially and didn't feel playtested at all :p
Making "epic leveling" progression would be math wise the simplest, but it would be the most boring option because very small group of people are going to use those rules regularly and you wouldn't ever get to use that content before the end of campaign. And it wouldn't be usable in 2e aps.
|
|
An alternative might be to NOT have Mythic be at all about power (or, at least, only be a tiny bit about power). Instead, it just lets you do really cool things.
Glancing at PF1 Mythic, there are lots of things that are quite interesting.
Just looking at the Archmage feats for some examples
Competent caster - In PF2, casting a spell wouldn't provoke
Crafting Mastery - perhaps coupled with a reduction in crafting time
Deep understanding
Basically, remove all the abilities that people actually TOOK and leave the other ones behind :-) :-) :-)
Letting characters with mythic abilities get skill feats at lower levels would also go some way to making low level characters feel special without at the same time making them over powered. Of course, as always with skill feats, it depends a huge amount on the skill in question whether or not this would actually help since some skills benefit a LOT more than do some others (I'm one of the people who think that a huge portion of skill feats are a nearly completely useless waste of space)