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Dispel Magic says "You unravel the magic behind a spell or effect", and the Medusa's Focused Gaze ability has the |Arcane| trait, making it a magic effect.
But it also says the effect is Permanent. So is there still magic in place for the spell to actually dispel? If someone used "Detect Magic" in a room with a person petrified by a Medusa, will their stone form ping as magical?
And if so... were a druid uses Shape Stone to turn a boulder into a flat slab.... does that slab ping as magical when a nearby person casts Detect Magic? And could someone come by a year later and use dispel magic to turn it back into a boulder?
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Petrification is the result of the ability, not the "effect" of the ability. For example, if someone kills you with a Death spell, you can't dispel it and bring them back to life. Since the ability is an instantaneous effect, i.e. has no duration listed, any changes made by the ability are permanent. Luckily the Slowed condition recovers on its own.
It's possible, since it has a Permanent duration, and it still persists, but needs to be counteracted by appropriate spell level magic.
Worst comes to worst, there is also Stone to Flesh that works regardless of counteract checks.
Dispel Magic can't dispel effects despite the first sentence, as effects are no valid targets.
Considering the number of magical effects in Pathfinder, I think it's safe to keep it that way. Unless you want to see Barbarian's Rage being dispelled.
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Dispel Magic can't dispel effects despite the first sentence, as effects are no valid targets.
Considering the number of magical effects in Pathfinder, I think it's safe to keep it that way. Unless you want to see Barbarian's Rage being dispelled.
well.. rage has no trait that would make it magical to begin with...
the Medusa's Petrifying Gaze and Focused Gaze abilities both have the Arcane trait, making them Magical effects.
Dispel Magic can't dispel effects despite the first sentence, as effects are no valid targets.
Considering the number of magical effects in Pathfinder, I think it's safe to keep it that way. Unless you want to see Barbarian's Rage being dispelled.well.. rage has no trait that would make it magical to begin with...
the Medusa's Petrifying Gaze and Focused Gaze abilities both have the Arcane trait, making them Magical effects.
Certain Instincts might, though, like Spirit, Dragon, or Superstition.
That being said, Dispel Magic can only target spell effects or unattended magic items, neither of which a stoned creature would qualify as.
Dispel Magic, much like Freedom of Movement, got nerfed into near uselessness.
Animal, dragon, and spirit instincts give Rage magical traits (primal/transmutation, arcane/evocation and divine/necromancy respectively).
No Occult rage option yet, huh.
Animal, dragon, and spirit instincts give Rage magical traits (primal/transmutation, arcane/evocation and divine/necromancy respectively).
No Occult rage option yet, huh.
Alien Totem, anyone?
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per the rules of duration (CRB pg 304)
Some spells have effects that remain even after the spell’s magic is gone. Any ongoing effect that isn’t part of the spell’s duration entry isn’t considered magical. For instance, a spell that creates a loud sound and has no duration might deafen someone for a time, even permanently. This deafness couldn’t be counteracted because it is not itself magical (though it might be cured by other magic, such as restore senses).
If a spell had "Duration: Permanent" listed in its spell block, then I suppose the effect of the spell could then still be dispelled... but I don't know any spells that have such a listing.
Most permanent effects are created by spells with no duration listed, which means the spell is instantaneous - and would therefore not be able to be dispelled.being an ability, though.. and not a spell.. it doesn't have a spell block format. But i did notice, that the Focus Gaze ability of the Medusa's does not actually have a duration itself - it just says that the target has to roll anther Fort Save vs the Medusa's Petrifying Gaze ability, which has a 1 minute duration.
However... if the target fails their save and had already been slowed by a previous Petrifying Gaze, the result is they become Petrified Permanently... which is an effect that remains after the Petrifying Gaze's listed 1 minute duration.... so i THINK... that means the petrification itself is NOT considered magical, and therefore cannot be dispelled.
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Alien Totem, anyone?Animal, dragon, and spirit instincts give Rage magical traits (primal/transmutation, arcane/evocation and divine/necromancy respectively).
No Occult rage option yet, huh.
Tentacle Totem!
All hail Yog Sothoth!
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...That being said, Dispel Magic can only target spell effects or unattended magic items, neither of which a stoned creature would qualify as.
Oh!!! So... despite the first line saying "You unravel the magic behind a spell or effect" because the spell block says
"Targets 1 spell effect or unattended magic item"only spells and not other magic effects can be targeted... oh wow... ok.
Generally speaking, if there's a specific spell of equal or higher level to remedy something, like Stone to Flesh, Remove Curse, or Restore Senses, I'd be skeptical that Dispel Magic is intended to be able to get rid of it.
Generally speaking, if there's a specific spell of equal or higher level to remedy something, like Stone to Flesh, Remove Curse, or Restore Senses, I'd be skeptical that Dispel Magic is intended to be able to get rid of it.That had been my initial cause to be skeptical.
I agree with the skepticism, though in this instance Stone to Flesh is automatic, so there's that.
Oddly, Flesh to Stone specifically calls out that the permanent effect is non-magical despite coming from a spell. So in that instance Dispel Magic would not work. It also makes me lean toward making the other petrify effects work similarly. The lower level sources are quite generous (especially w/ Basilisk's blood) at being a threat rather than an expectation in battle. Yet Dispel Magic is quite available by then.
*shrug* Nothing definitive.
Generally speaking, if there's a specific spell of equal or higher level to remedy something, like Stone to Flesh, Remove Curse, or Restore Senses, I'd be skeptical that Dispel Magic is intended to be able to get rid of it.That had been my initial cause to be skeptical.
For curses this is specifically called out in the CRB errata:
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...That being said, Dispel Magic can only target spell effects or unattended magic items, neither of which a stoned creature would qualify as.Oh!!! So... despite the first line saying "You unravel the magic behind a spell or effect" because the spell block says
"Targets 1 spell effect or unattended magic item"only spells and not other magic effects can be targeted... oh wow... ok.
Yep, I've raised this issue multiple times. The first sentence in spell description is in general fluff text and has to be ignored...
Dispel Magic, much like Freedom of Movement, got nerfed into near uselessness.
In PF1, Dispel Magic was unable to dispel Extraordinary Abilities, which is the equivalent of non-spell effects, now. So no change on that.
As a sidenote, Dispel Magic is now way stronger than it was in PF1. In PF1, if you wanted to dispel Fly or Haste, you had roughly a 50% chance and had to use a Greater Dispel as soon as you were level 10+. Now, you just use a level 5 Dispel Magic and you have 95% chance to succeed. If anything, Dispel Magic has become an absolute must have for any character (especially spontaneous casters).