So I’ve designed a mutant Minataur that is mechanically the same as the CR 4 monster with the following changes. A fleshwarper has gotten his hands on him and spliced with with an orc and an octopus. Resulting in a green fur Minotaur with a Orc face growing out of his chest and 4 tentacles growing out of his back with a 15 ft reach. It also has the ability to camouflage like an octopus as well as orc ferocity . Because of this ability and the bonus 5 natural attacks what CR would you give this monster?
You turned a Minotaur into an ambush predator with camouflage?
I'd put it at a CR 6... borderline. Only because the extra tentacles will make it that much better at grappling.
Then an additional +1 for fighting it on its turf (a labyrinth). The big boss of this chapter is an alchemist fleshwarper releasing monsters so I was trying to think up crazy combos that were mechanical easy plug ins.
Ferocity and a bonus to Stealth aren't too much on their own in terms of CR. four extra attacks could be worth +1, possibly +2, depending.
Although, I wouldn't increase the CR for it being in a labyrinth. Unless you increase the CR for a shark because it's in the ocean. Monsters are *supposed* to be encountered in their natural environments.
Now, if this minotaur was encountered in, say, a flooded labyrinth that had secret revolving doors/teleportation traps and narrow passageways a (partially) boneless monstrosity could make use of, *then* I'd say it was worth an extra +1CR.
+1
It's hit and damage aren't improving here so all those extra secondary natural weapon attacks aren't doing it that much good. It doesn't have enough survivability to push beyond a +1 and, depending on the level of the party, those extra attacks could be just for show.
Throwing the axe away, and making all the tentacles primary natural attacks could make the benefits threatening, but it's probably not surviving a full round of combat.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Normal minotaur deals 38.5 damage per round, if everything hits and ignoring crits. But two of three attacks come only at +4 (significantly below guideline for CR 4 martial creature), so I'd count the damage from them as half as much (assuming he hits roughly at 15+ instead of 10+, halved hit chance). So the damage boils down to 27.5.
Now the tentacles add 4 * (1d6+2) / 2, resulting in 11 damage. I guess the fifth attack is supposed the orc face bite, so another (1d6+2) / 2, turning it into 13.75 bonus damage. That's roughly +50% damage on a full-attack. CR 5 is +25% high damage over CR 4, and a +2 increase on high AB, so it's a good match.
For a CR upgrade the defensive abilities also have to improve. Ferocity, camouflage and increased reach work for +1 CR. Keep in mind ferocity makes him staggered, so he can only swing his greataxe once.
So IMO it's clearly CR 5, though it's even more of a glass cannon than the original minotaur. Can turn out disappointing quickly: Maybe the party kills him before he can even act, maybe he kills a PC or two with lucky rolls before going down. I'd go with two tentacles and beef up the armor / natural armor instead, that's less rolling and a more versatile creature.
Definitely gonna have them be primary attacks. Reviewing both the Minotaur and Octopus (CR 4 and CR 8 respectively) I’m thinking a CR or 7 tops (with a few more modifications to warrant the +3). Party when they face this will be level 5 but because the party size I definitely need to beef it up some. Not trying to kill them but make it a stressful encounter.
So where is what I’ve got so far:
Octotaur (CR ?)
XP 1,200
CE Large Aberration
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +10
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 16 (+7 natural, –1 size)
hp 45 (6d10+12)
Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +5
Defensive Abilities natural cunning, ink cloud (30-foot-radius sphere)
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee gore +10(1d6+4), bite +10 (1d8+4 plus poison), 4 tentacles +10 (1d4+4 plus grab)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft., 20 ft tentacles
Special Attacks powerful charge (gore +11, 2d6+6), constrict (tentacle, 1d4+2)
Str 19, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +6; CMB +11 (+15 grapple); CMD 21
Feats Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Multiattack
Skills Intimidate +5, Perception +10, Stealth +10, Survival +10; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception, +4 Survival, +10 Escape Artist, +8 Stealth
Languages Giant
Natural Cunning (Ex)
Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells and prevents them from ever becoming lost. Further, they are never caught flat-footed.
Poison (Ex)
Bite—injury; save Fort DC 19; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d3 Str; cure 2 saves.
At this point, it could have tentacles for arms instead, since it's not really using its minotaur limbs for anything.
Some kind of damage reduction or regeneration might help.
I'd definitely consider giving it a swim speed and boosting it's Stealth even more.
The bite looks like it's from the octopus, right? I'd drop it as an attack itself and make it the constrict damage and beef that up to something like 2d6+6.
I would consider bumping stats, too. +2 Str, +4 Dex, +2-4 Con.
And hey, if you're ever looking for more crazy mash-'em-ups, I've got a few: ettin/otyugh, rust monster/spider, roc/lobster, etc.
Here is what I ended up with:
Octotaur CR 6
The genetic combination of a minotaur, orc and giant octopus. The Physical body of a minotaur with an orc face on the chest and 4 octopus tentacles growing out of its back.
XP 2400
CE Large Aberration Amphibious
Init +2; Senses ; Perception +16
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 11, flat-footed 16 ( No Armour, Shield, none)
(+2 Dex, +7 Natural, -1 size)
hp 66 (7d10+28);
Fort +11, Ref +4, Will +4
Ferocity, Natural Cunning (Ex)
OFFENSE
Speed: 30ft., swim 30ft.
Single Attack Bite +10 (1d12+6) (poison (Ex) )
Full Attack
Bite +10 (1d12+6)(poison (Ex) )
Gore +10 (1d6+6)
4 Tentacles (prime) +10 (2d6+6)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft., tentacles 20 ft.
Special Attacks
Constrict (Ex) (STR) DC(19) ,
Poison (Ex DC(17) Bite—injury; save Fort DC 19; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d3 Str; cure 2 saves.
STATISTICS
Str 23, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 12
Base Attack 5 CMB +12 ; CMD 24
Feats
Great Fortitude: +2 Fortitude save,
Improved Bull Rush: +2 to Bull rush CM and CMD ; no attack of opportunity,
Martial Weap Prof,
Multiattack: Secondary Attacks are at -2 instead of -5,
Power Attack: You can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attacks and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. Every +4 base atack penalty increases by -1 and damage by +2,
Simple Weapon Proficiency
Skills Escape Artist +16, Intimidate +5, Perception +16, Stealth +16, Survival +10, Swim +16
Languages Giant, Orc
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Camouflage (Ex) By changing the subject’s coloration to blend with that of its surrounding can use Stealth to hide in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain does not grant cover or concealment.
Ink Cloud (Ex) An octopus can emit a 10-foot-radius sphere of ink once per minute as a free action. The ink provides total concealment in water, and persists for 1 minute.
Jet (Ex) can jet backward once per round as a full-round action, at a speed of 200 feet. It must move in a straight line while jetting, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity when it does so.
Constrict (Ex) (STR):A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creatures entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creatures melee attack.
Grab (Ex):If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creatures Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creatures descriptive text).
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Amphibious:Can breath on land
Ferocity:A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.
Here is what I ended up with:
Octotaur CR 6
*smug grin*
I approve. Solidly CR 6 with the abilities and tweaks you've added.