Ok so question about Aid Another. Does it have a type of bonus it gives? And how does stacking it work? I'm 90% sure you can stack aid another from multiple people. But what about someone who has swift aid and wants to use both their standard and their swift action doing Aid Another? Do they stack to give a +3? How do these interact with say the Halfling Helpful trait (2 becomes 4) or Order of the Dragon Cavalier (+3 which scales)?
The way i had been reading it so far, a Halfling Order of the Dragon Honor Guard Cavalier has been able to slap +8 aid another bonuses on his allies, and with combat reflexes is able to bodyguard almost any attacks I make in his vicinity for the same bonus. Which I'm fine with for the most part, its basically all he can do. But if he can use swift aid and start making it into +16s for one attack thats a bit much i feel like. Even the +8 he has currently is a little excessive tbh.
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Even for untyped, bonuses do not stack if from the same source. It is an entirely reasonable interpretation to say that the same action (aid another) from the same character is the same source.
Order of the dragon and helpful halfling do not stack at all. Both set the number to X, not increase the number by X. Thus you would only take the highest value.
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Thorin001 is correct, but for a bit more clarity ...
Aid another is an "Untyped" bonus . Untyped bonuses stack with everything, including other untyped bonuses. The exception to this is untyped bonuses that come from the same source.
So aid another from Jack (+2 untyped) and aid another from Jill (+2 untyped) will stack with one another for a +4 bonus even though they're the same bonus type. However if Jack tried to aid twice it wouldn't work because both bonuses are coming from the same source (Jack). Because of this Swift Aid and Bodyguard can't stack to increase an ally's AC against one attack as they're both coming from the same source.
Now for Helpful and the Cavalier Honor Guard bonuses, thorin001 is correct again. Both abilities say "your aid another bonus is 4 instead of 2" rather than "you add +2 to your aid another bonus". This means that they don't stack with one another. Likewise Swift Aid changes the bonus to +1, meaning it also doesn't stack with the Cavalier or Halfling abilities.
Your Halfling Cavalier could get Benevolent Armour, or could multiclass to an Arcane class and use Gloves of Arcane Striking and could fairly reliably give +10AC to allies with the Bodyguard feat, while giving ~+7 to their allies attack rolls with Swift Aid.
If you think it's not breaking the game then it won't hurt too much to leave it, but if it is breaking the game (which it sounds like) then you have the right to disallow it.
One thing I stress though is that you should allow a rebuild of the character if you're changing how their abilities work mid-game. If they aren't going to use Swift Aid, or if the Helpful trait is now redundant then they should get to swap them for something else.
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Aid other states that “multiple characters can aid the same friend and similar bonuses stack”. So there is no doubt that aid other stacks from other characters. What is less clear is does the bonus from the same character stack. The fact that it is an untyped bonus is irrelevant because aid other explicitly states it stacks.
The rules state that the bonus from multiple characters stack. That would imply that it is an exception to the rule or it would not need to be included. If that is the case then the bonus from the same person would not stack, because it falls outside the exception and the base rule would still be in effect.
Now for Helpful and the Cavalier Honor Guard bonuses, thorin001 is correct again. Both abilities say "your aid another bonus is 4 instead of 2" rather than "you add +2 to your aid another bonus". This means that they don't stack with one another. Likewise Swift Aid changes the bonus to +1, meaning it also doesn't stack with the Cavalier or Halfling abilities.
To clarify, Order of the Dragon reads "whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his Armor Class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check." it doesnt actually say "instead of a +2" like helpful does. This is the point of contention that the player has with saying they wouldnt stack.
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you’re in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent’s next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character’s skill check.
Category Race
Requirement(s) Halfling
You see nothing wrong with letting others achieve greatness so long as the job gets done. Whenever you successfully perform an aid another action, you grant your ally a +4 bonus instead of the normal +2.
Aid Allies (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his Armor Class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. At 8th level, and every six levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1.
Intercept (Ex): At 3rd level, an honor guard learns to better disrupt the attacks of his enemies. He gains Bodyguard as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisite. In addition, whenever the honor guard uses the aid another action to increase an ally’s Armor Class, the bonus to Armor Class granted by the aid another action increases by +1. This ability replaces cavalier’s charge.
With a quick but harmless swipe, you can aid an ally’s assault.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can attempt the aid another action, granting your ally either a +1 bonus on his next attack roll or a +1 bonus to his AC.
Normal: Aid another is a standard action.
So the problem is that the Helpful (Halfling) trait, the Order of the Dragon's Aid Allies ability and the Swift Aid feat all replace the standard +2 bonus with a new number. The only way the Order of the Dragon bonus could stack with the usual Aid Another bonus is if the ally got both the +2 from Aid Another and the full +3 from Aid Allies (for a total of +5). I've never seen anyone read it this way.
Aid another gives: W Bonus
Helpful trait gives: X Bonus
Order of the Dragon gives: Y Bonus
Swift Aid gives:Z Bonus
So Helpful changes W to X. Then when you add Order of the Dragon you're either just giving Y, or you're adding X + Y. You're definitely not giving X + Y, if you were it would say so.
The difference with Honour Guard is that it doesn't give a value of it's own, it adds +1 to the exisiting bonus provided by the other abilities. So Honour Guard plus helpful would be X+1.
Does that help?
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Helpful overrides order of dragon (4 is better than 3).
honor guard adds +1.
swift aid should be 2 (from intercept)
they should invest in the benevolent armor special ability
i'd tell them to switch to order of the cockatrice to debuff the enemies with dazzling display (and maybe a thug rogue dip for the frightened condition).
i did that build in PFS
Cavalier Honor Guard Envoy (6), Bard Savage Skald (1), Rogue Thug (1), Battle Herald (1), Ranger Freebooter (2)
with benevolent armor and the herald ability i was bodyguarding for 11 ac and my mount was also bodyguarding for 10 (pre-nerf benevolent armor ability) while giving the enemies -2 to hit for effectively a 23 point increase in ac (+21 ac, attack at -2)
See the confusion is mostly from the wording on OotD being unclear. Or rather not specifying the +3 as a replacement like HH does. It also doesn't specify if its supposed to be a +1 to Aid Another like the scaling sort of implies and would therefore scale with Swift Aid.
Apparently the way HeroLab combines them is by making Helpful Halfling take precedence with +4. And then doing OotD as a scaling bonus. So it becomes +5 with both, that then becomes a +6 at 8th and so on and so forth. Not sure of the interaction with Swift Aid though
