Why all the abilities switching something from a move to a swift action?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Looking at all the things that move a move action to a swift action I have to wonder if either a full action didnt burn your swift action at some point. Or If writers have pathfinders action ecnomy in mind where the swift didn't do that.

What would be the point of quick draw? you can either draw the weapon while moving or as a move action, and then shoot. The feat would only be useful if you had to draw two weapons or if you needed to draw a weapon quickly and open a door.


I think there's a lot of equipment that requires a move action to activate too.

Sczarni

BigNorseWolf wrote:
What would be the point of quick draw? you can either draw the weapon while moving or as a move action, and then shoot. The feat would only be useful if you had to draw two weapons or if you needed to draw a weapon quickly and open a door.

Any Solar Flare Solarion that wants to Plasma Sheath and Attack on round 1 needs Quick Draw.

Plus there's no other way to regularly full attack with thrown weapons.

And, as a niche effect (which I'm waiting on Devastation Ark to be sanctioned for), it allows a Shuriken Assassin with Concealed Weaponry to show up to a no-weapons-allowed gala and whip out a Trick Attack on round 1.

If you're not in one of those 3 categories, or otherwise don't have a need to attack while not moving, then don't take Quick Draw.


Nefreet wrote:
If you're not in one of those 3 categories, or otherwise don't have a need to attack while not moving, then don't take Quick Draw.

Well, it isn't JUST quickdraw. Its any ability taking something from a move to a swift action seems to be rather overvalued. That was amazing in pathfinder, but with the starfinder action economy going from a move to a swift is very close to going from 6 to half a dozen.

Quote:
Plus there's no other way to regularly full attack with thrown weapons.

Slight aside

Have 2 returning weapons one in each hand(which you'll want to do anyway so you can use your higher level weapons) By the time you get triple attack you can probably get a third arm/prehensile tail.

Quote:
Any Solar Flare Solarion that wants to Plasma Sheath and Attack on round 1 needs Quick Draw.

Other slight aside.

Eh? You can't attune out of combat but I don't see anything that says you can't have your solar weapon out unless you're in combat.

From the general Solar manifestation rule: You can shut off the light or darkness as a standard action in order to blend in or assist in stealth, but whenever you enter a stellar mode, the glow or darkness returns immediately.

Which hints pretty strongly that there are times when you're not attuned but your weapon is out. I don't see anything in the solar flare that would call it out as only being out when attuned either.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are a lot of specific case move actions that can make it relevant. Not so many general use cases. I'm not totally sold either way on just how planned the way these things work was.

Sczarni

I'm sure there were (and maybe still are) authors and contributors out there who weren't (and maybe still aren't) familiar with how swift actions work in Starfinder, but with (3?) issues of errata by this point it sure seems like the Designers would have had ample time to address the question, or at least mention something, so I think we're stuck with what we got.


Not all actions can be combined with a move action, so I think its to allow you to have the effect of the swift action, move and still attack.
Kip up. Its a move action to get up, or a swift with the feat. It allows you to negate being knocked down (Since there is no AoO for getting up) as a swift then take a guarded step from the Melee Fighter who put you on your rear before shooting him in the face.

Edit: Also to add, I think as mentioned it can be very slim situations and some may not be 100% useful. Quick draw for example. My groups Soldier has 2 rifles he uses, 1 for long range and one for short range but higher damage. He has the called Fusion on it, which if you have the Creds, can bypass the need for Quick draw


I think there are more things turning a move action into a swift action than there are practical uses for them.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I agree, I think in a large part it’s writers not realizing that a full-round action eats up your swift action in Starfinder.

Spoiler:
Haste circuit is my least favorite offender of this. It’s great for the movement speed boost, but
1) You can’t full-attack the round you activate it.
2) You can’t full-attack the round you deactivate it.

On the other hand, it is often worth spending a couple of rounds prepping in combat instead of launching straight into attacking. (“I pull out my longarm, I steady my bipod. Next round I target track that one with my exocortex and take a single shot.”) Little things can help speed this up a bit.


There's also a monster that has a haste circuit... that only lasts 1 round

Sczarni

I'm pretty sure that falls into the bucket of "author didn't know what they were doing" rather than evidence implying the rules are wrong.

Unless that creature was created by the Lead Designer (and not edited afterwards).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Full attacks consuming your swift action is honestly the single rule I see forgotten the most by players, gms and I guess possibly writers too. Even in Society stuff I used to see lots of people full attacking and then using a swift action (or vice versa) and nobody batting an eye at it.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

After this sat in the back of my mind for a while, I started thinking “how many things are there that change what would normally be a move action to a swift action?” And I could only come up with two. Quick Draw/Called and Kip Up.

Also occurring to me: I don’t remember the last time my mechanic used a swift action for anything other than activating his haste circuit. I would LOVE to see more abilities that let you do a specific thing as a swift action instead of a move action.

example:
Combat Tracking, again. Even if combat tracking was a swift action you still couldn’t full attack the round you used it so I don’t think that would be too powerful. But it could let me do something else with my move. I’d pay a feat for that.


Belafon wrote:
After this sat in the back of my mind for a while, I started thinking “how many things are there that change what would normally be a move action to a swift action?” And I could only come up with two. Quick Draw/Called and Kip Up.

Checking COM and Armory:

Needler halfing trait (COM) reloads injection weapons as a swift. Efficient Mentor (Instructor Archetype) lowers a move action aid to a swift. Squirming Entrails Mk2 allows standing from prone as a swift.

Plenty of classes do use swift actions to activate a wide range of abilities, even if the Mechanic doesn't. There's also a decent amount of gear/augmentations that can be activated or have a mode switched for a swift action. For them move/attack or cast/activate is a reasonably frequent round.

So the best way for a mechanic to use swift actions and max a round that is otherwise standard/move is to invest in some gear or augmentations that provide an edge. A few archetypes also have abilities activated as a swift.


I definitely would agree people seem to forget swift is eaten with the full.

Looks at necrograft moonlight fibers...

But there's also a decent potential to building around utilizing each action individually too, like boosting an attack, maintaining disquieting nanites as a swift and standard casting a spell, etc.

Also dropping an action to a swift allows you to use it twice in a turn even if applicable. Once as a swift, second as a move still.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

In thinking this over for a couple of days, the best uses for things like this in general would be if you commonly have encounters where standing around making full attacks is not the best use of your turn. At that point, you can still make a single standard action, a move action, and use your swift action to good use too. That is quite the upgrade to your turn when compared to only making the standard action, the move action, and having nothing useful to do with your swift.

Some example encounters that I think would work well for this:

Vehicle encounters where at least one of the characters has to use a move action to do piloting. If everyone is in their own vehicle, even more so.

A quick dash and grab scene where the players need to get the thing and leave quickly. (Granted, most player groups would just opt to annihilate the opposition and then casually stroll out, but that is boring.)

Some environmental effect (such as the crippled ship you are in is currently sinking into the ocean) and you need to keep moving while either fighting with enemies, or just using skills or actions to open up the path to safety (or both).


breithauptclan wrote:
In thinking this over for a couple of days, the best uses for things like this in general would be if you commonly have encounters where standing around making full attacks is not the best use of your turn.

This, this, ten thousand times this. If the players are simply standing still making full attacks all the time, then your combat encounters need to be reworked. Don't have the fight occur on a featureless plane, but have plenty of cover, and have the enemies *use* the cover. Want to stand out in the open? Enjoy being shot at by every enemy while they all benefit from about +4 AC worth of "I'm mostly behind a wall". If the players are hunkering behind cover, themselves? Have the enemies spend turns dashing to flank, or apply area attacks to flush the PCs out.

Full Attacks are valuable, but they should always only be one option of several, and mobility really should usually be more important. Especially in a setting like Starfinder where everyone sentient should have useful ranged attacks.

Community / Forums / Starfinder / Rules Questions / Why all the abilities switching something from a move to a swift action? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.