Sequels?


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count me in as someone who'd love to see a sequel to Second Darkness, which to this day is still the most underrated AP Paizo put out. There's so much great stuff in there, even though the AP as a whole needs a lot of work, obviously.

But, sincerly, if you do a sequel to a PF1/3.5 AP, please include an option to actually play this AP in PF1 for all of us not interested in PF2. It's simply too much work to convert the PF2 APs back into a system that's actually fun to play.

Silver Crusade

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It’s significantly less work and resources for the people actually making it to make it for just one system than to have someone convert it for their home game.

Either convert it or play it in the rules it’s made for, you’re not gonna get a whole second version of the AP just because you don’t like P2.


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They supported 1e for a decade. It’s 2e’s turn.

Scarab Sages

I would like a re-release of Second Darkness to 2E since there's a lot of room for improvement story-wise and because Paizo has done relatively little drow elves over the decades. But it probably won't happen.

Paizo has said they're not releasing any more 1E content. The designers are really happy with their work on 2E.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have 0 interest in second darkness if im being honest, Golarion's drow just dont interest me that much, the whole "trying to cause a second earthfall" thing was pretty cool for a villainous scheme but otherwise i dont have many strong feelings for SD.

I'd still be interested in what a sequel could bring but id prefer other stories if im being honest.

(also ditto on what keftiu said, Pathfinder 1e was out for a decade and has plenty of content that could still be touched on, most people havent played every adventure path anyways. 2e is the new shiny system and they're doing pretty damn well with it, so I expect them to continue supporting 2e until the day that a possible pathfinder 3e happens. If you don't like PF2e thats fine but a lot of people like PF2e and I doubt Paizo will make any more content for 1e now that its out)


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If we're going to get another elf-centric AP, please let it be the Mwangi elves who are interesting rather than the Avistan elves who are much less so.


Jinin elves are my personal preference.

Scarab Sages

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
If we're going to get another elf-centric AP, please let it be the Mwangi elves who are interesting rather than the Avistan elves who are much less so.

Yes, but Auideen elves could more interesting if they got a more interesting write-up than Elves of Golarian. Focus on their extraterrestrial origin or their war with the dinosaur-dragon-demon, that's unique to Lost Omens.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

an AP on the mwangi elves would be SUPER cool, I'd love to have another Mwangi AP in addition to Strength of Thousands, there's just so much potential there from the pirates of bloodcove to the elves and dwarves of the expanse

as far as sequels go though obviously one day we gotta finish what Tyrant's Grasp started and defeat Tar Baphon but thats probably gonna be a looooong way out


Why not an AP featuring both Avistan and Mwangi Elves?


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Why not an AP featuring both Avistan and Mwangi Elves?

This would be a hard sell for me, but that turns around quick if it goes to Sovyrian. More 2e space stuff, please!


^I could go for that -- approximately 1/3 in each place.


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I'm just kind of a pass on another "elf AP" before we get a "dwarf AP" or a "gnome AP" or an "orc AP" or a "goblin AP" or something.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just play Age of Ashes and get a taste of each.


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I re-read LO:Legends today, and there are some interesting implications for the Worldwound area - an AP "cleaning up" and dealing with the impact of that world event.

This isn't a sequel directly, but "following" up with the Veiled Masters from Age of Ashes/Kataphesh (etc.), would be super interesting.


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feelsbradman wrote:

I re-read LO:Legends today, and there are some interesting implications for the Worldwound area - an AP "cleaning up" and dealing with the impact of that world event.

I would love if this favored a Sarkorian perspective.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

seeing more of the Sarkorians, particularly the god-callers would be SUPER cool, plus it could have some sequel elements from wrath of the righteous which could be fun for 1e players who played that AP

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Question:

Paizo put out this massive book on the Mwangi Expanse, which everyone seems to be falling over each other to praise harder [haven't picked it up myself yet], and there was a Mwangi bit in Age of Ashes, and now we have Strength of Thousands...

Could Mwangi be the Varisia of 2E? Might be pretty cool to do something like that... after all, in 1E, we had:

Rise
Curse
Second
Jade
Shattered
Return

That's SIX APs which were set either in whole or in part in Varisia, and build up a massive metaplot which culminated in Return, the penultimate AP for the line.

Something similar for the Mwangi would be pretty cool.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I'm just kind of a pass on another "elf AP" before we get a "dwarf AP" or a "gnome AP" or an "orc AP" or a "goblin AP" or something.

Goblin AP plz, Paizo!!


keftiu wrote:
feelsbradman wrote:

I re-read LO:Legends today, and there are some interesting implications for the Worldwound area - an AP "cleaning up" and dealing with the impact of that world event.

I would love if this favored a Sarkorian perspective.

Exactly! I didn't play WOTR, but after reading up on the wiki and LO:Legends, I'm fascinated with how those people are re-bounding/or not.


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It is significant, yes.

Paizo Drow also fortunately don't have the insane racist backstory of "god gave them dark skin so everyone knows they're evil" like in dnd. They're just a*!%!%@s who have evil radiation poisoning and like demons.


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Grankless wrote:

It is significant, yes.

Paizo Drow also fortunately don't have the insane racist backstory of "god gave them dark skin so everyone knows they're evil" like in dnd. They're just a**!#!$s who have evil radiation poisoning and like demons.

And in Extinction Curse, they might also have literal radiation poisoning.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

im just glad drow in pathfinder are more blue and purple instead of strictly dark skinned, still not a huge fan of "evil races" and their lore is kinda weird but then again i dont know if anything significant has changed since 1e that im not aware of


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I think drow are following that well-run path of, we encounter villains that are drow (mostly nobles and their soldiers we learn later).

Now we're increasingly seeing people who are not part of the mainstream drow society, and they are not evil. So as we encounter more drow, and see them in play, they become less uniform.

That's how Paizo seem to want to treat mysterious evil groups, it's kind of the philosophy ascribed to serpentfolk as well. There are non-evil sneks, a Magic Warrior even, but the priest class and rulers that sit at the center of their society and worship Ydersius are bad business. And until we see lots of serpentfolk "on-screen" we won't get that nuance in rules, and stories yet.

There can of course be issues with portraying other societies as having evil rulers, but not as much so for humans, etc. But we don't have evil races so far as "inherently evil". Not that that excuses the lack of differentiation that can be interpreted before we actually get the nuance in print.


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I really, really do want to see serpentfolk playable. The idea of being a “monster” with such a long history is fascinating to me.

Silver Crusade

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I just want to play an adventurer noodle.

Dark Archive

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I just want several different reptilian people xD

Scarab Sages

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Grankless wrote:
Paizo Drow also fortunately don't have the insane racist backstory of "god gave them dark skin so everyone knows they're evil" like in dnd. They're just a$*!%%+s who have evil radiation poisoning and like demons.

Evil surface elves do (on rare occaisons) transform into drow elves, even in 2E. Not sure how, exactly.

Becoming a Drow:
Rarely, when a surface elf commits an act of cruelty heinous enough to draw the attention of a demon lord, transformation into a drow can happen spontaneously—but these transformations are rare enough to be legends in their own right. No known instance of a drow reverting to an elf has ever been recorded.

For greater context and nuance, not all drow are evil and not all drow communities worship demons.

Drow Exiles:
While drow society is evil, not all drow are bound to these norms. Those who seek something better in life are invariably exiles and often flee to the surface to escape their sinister kin. These drow often live as hermits, or they seek out societies where others have yet to hear the legends regarding their kind.

Adherents of Chaos:
Away from the larger drow cities where worship of demon lords is instilled into all citizens from a young age, drow might adopt the worship of other entities. Many drow feel the call of the protean lords and embrace chaos, art, and freedom to set themselves apart from their demon-worshipping kin. These communities often have proteans living among them, instructing drow proteges in the power of disorder.


NECR0G1ANT wrote:
Grankless wrote:
Paizo Drow also fortunately don't have the insane racist backstory of "god gave them dark skin so everyone knows they're evil" like in dnd. They're just a$*!%%+s who have evil radiation poisoning and like demons.

Evil surface elves do (on rare occaisons) transform into drow elves, even in 2E. Not sure how, exactly.

** spoiler omitted **

For greater context and nuance, not all drow are evil and not all drow communities worship demons.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

From context, it sounds like elves are turned into drow if a demon lord catches notice of them doing something especially bad, kind of like an invite for club membership they can't refuse.


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Perpdepog wrote:
NECR0G1ANT wrote:
Grankless wrote:
Paizo Drow also fortunately don't have the insane racist backstory of "god gave them dark skin so everyone knows they're evil" like in dnd. They're just a$*!%%+s who have evil radiation poisoning and like demons.

Evil surface elves do (on rare occaisons) transform into drow elves, even in 2E. Not sure how, exactly.

** spoiler omitted **

For greater context and nuance, not all drow are evil and not all drow communities worship demons.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

From context, it sounds like elves are turned into drow if a demon lord catches notice of them doing something especially bad, kind of like an invite for club membership they can't refuse.

Their probably really excited and flattered to receive those offers they can't refuse from the various Demon Lords, Qlippoth Lords, R.Gug, and etc. Otherwise I wonder if they wake up later with a Varguoille or nightmare head in their bed.


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Digging this thread back up to say: I've really come around on the idea of a Second Darkness sequel. The rehabilitation of the Lantern Bearers (and Kyonin broadly), the reconciliation with the Drow, and the chance to earn a hard-fought-but-possible win against Treerazer all sound delightful. It has such a good chance of being a classic "go stop the super big demon in the elf kingdom" classic, but obviously given the Pathfinder flair.


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^You have my attention.

Silver Crusade

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And my axe!


keftiu wrote:
Digging this thread back up to say: I've really come around on the idea of a Second Darkness sequel.

So, for titles do we like Third Darkness or Second Darkness: Dark Hard with a Vengeance?

Shadow Lodge

keftiu wrote:
Digging this thread back up to say: I've really come around on the idea of a Second Darkness sequel. The rehabilitation of the Lantern Bearers (and Kyonin broadly), the reconciliation with the Drow, and the chance to earn a hard-fought-but-possible win against Treerazer all sound delightful. It has such a good chance of being a classic "go stop the super big demon in the elf kingdom" classic, but obviously given the Pathfinder flair.

"Rehabilitation" was a good word choice, as it signifies changes in how we perceive these institutions without their having to have been reformed (or, indeed, smashed as inimical to internal or social reform).

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
And my axe!

And a whole lot of bows and crossbows from all the elves and drows who'd be NPCs in the story!


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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Digging this thread back up to say: I've really come around on the idea of a Second Darkness sequel. The rehabilitation of the Lantern Bearers (and Kyonin broadly), the reconciliation with the Drow, and the chance to earn a hard-fought-but-possible win against Treerazer all sound delightful. It has such a good chance of being a classic "go stop the super big demon in the elf kingdom" classic, but obviously given the Pathfinder flair.
"Rehabilitation" was a good word choice, as it signifies changes in how we perceive these institutions without their having to have been reformed (or, indeed, smashed as inimical to internal or social reform).

The Adventurer’s Guide presented the reformed Lantern Bearers five years ago. I’m not sure what you’re upset about, but whatever it is, that particular ship sailed a while ago.

Shadow Lodge

keftiu wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
Digging this thread back up to say: I've really come around on the idea of a Second Darkness sequel. The rehabilitation of the Lantern Bearers (and Kyonin broadly), the reconciliation with the Drow, and the chance to earn a hard-fought-but-possible win against Treerazer all sound delightful. It has such a good chance of being a classic "go stop the super big demon in the elf kingdom" classic, but obviously given the Pathfinder flair.
"Rehabilitation" was a good word choice, as it signifies changes in how we perceive these institutions without their having to have been reformed (or, indeed, smashed as inimical to internal or social reform).
The Adventurer’s Guide presented the reformed Lantern Bearers five years ago. I’m not sure what you’re upset about, but whatever it is, that particular ship sailed a while ago.

It's never too late to errata an erroneous piece of lore. Is a thing we get told all the time about Second Darkness and Kyonin generally. The decision to reform the genocide machine into a wholesome institution instead of pulverizing it to atoms is one that should be revisited.


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I support this "Drow/Kyonin internal elf politics AP that is a Second Darkness sequel" idea on the principle of "if we put all the things I don't care about in a single AP, then there'll be less of those things in other APs" ;p


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I support this "Drow/Kyonin internal elf politics AP that is a Second Darkness sequel" idea on the principle of "if we put all the things I don't care about in a single AP, then there'll be less of those things in other APs" ;p

Hey, such a thing might even shake up Kyonin enough to make it more appealing! But sometimes an AP just isn't your thing - I completely checked out during the Extinction Curse/Agents of Edgewatch year.

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