"reverse Sanctuary"

[Zapp]

Are there any spells (or other magical effects) that work as a kind of inverted Sanctuary?

Ideally, a spell that creates an aura that forces every creature to make a save each time they want to attack someone else than me (the one emanating the aura).

But anything along the same basic idea would be most appreciated.

I tried searching for various phrases and bits of phrases without any luck.

Thanks.

[Gary Bush]

I don't know of any.

[Themetricsystem]

Your best bet here is Dutiful Challenge in terms of working to shift the opponent's attention from your allies.

I don't think you'll ever see a way to pull "threat/aggro/hate" like many expect when coming from video games or MMOs though.

[Kyrone]

I think that the closest would be the
Dutiful Challenge Focus Spell.

[Zapp]

Thank you.

I am going to assume the target somehow understands it gets the penalty and also how to avoid it (=by attacking you).

Otherwise, there would be no reason for a change in behavior and you could simply debuff creatures you see attacking others. I'm assuming even a non-intelligent critter might decide against attacking someone else?

(I mean, the GM obviously knows this, but as the GM I don't want to choose actions for my monsters based on meta knowledge only I have.)

[Dr A Gon]

You can make it more attractive to hit others, like True Target.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=346

The most effective way I've seen of "tanking" is literally shoving your own wizard out of the way and blocking the space yourself. Chances are it's easier to shove a co-operative friendly nerd than a large hostile demon.

[Zapp]

I was thinking of the scenario where the level 1 heroes accompany a level 5 NPC into a monster-infested area.

I wanted a magic item that the NPC could use to radiate an aura of "hit me, not them", because otherwise there just isn't much you can do to keep your allies from getting killed. The monster that does succeed at its Will save could choose to target a PC, but then at least the entire group could focus fire on that critter to kill it before it kills the PC.

So I asked if there was something along these lines in the rules. Now I know there is not.

[Dr A Gon]

It's an unusual scenario where the PC aren't the stars and the ones protecting the lower level NPC, but I'm not going to tell you what's best for your own game. You can do whatever you want.

But I will mention the NPC can give them shrinkng potions which are quite cheap for a high level, and then they just hide in a pouch while they get carried by the real heroes! :-)

It's 90 gp per PC per hour to keep them dosed.

[Zapp]

:)

[masda_gib]

I like Dr A Gon's suggestion to cast True Target with yourself as the target. That's a power move! :D

Other that the already suggested stuff, Illusions to hide your party members or wall spells to make them unaccessible might also do the trick of monsters attacking just you.

[Zapp]

Yeah, but why then not add actual "aggro" spells?

I mean if you already can make the weaker party members small or invisible or whatever, why not add a method that relies on "magical compulsion" to the mix?

[Zapp]

It's more of a General than a Rules question: but why has NO edition of D&D or Pathfinder experimented with aggro as a concept?

You can easily reskin it however you want. A spell similar to Reaper's Lantern that affects undead foes within the light to become unable to target any living creature also within the light except for the holder of the lantern.

For example.

[Dr A Gon]

I can see adding some sort of feat or spell that makes you look more dangerous, or compels people to hit you. An intimidation or deception skill feat might do it, as might defensive martial class feats. And, of course, spells.

Full compulsion wouldn't be useful as you could just compel them to stand down, but perhaps a weaker effect to switch targets might still work even if they made the save - thus balancing it vs full compulsion.

As for why there's no aggro concept, as a GM I assume animals just hit whoever is out in front, or try to pick off a straggler. Against intelligent creatures it would need to be a mental effect of some kind. An intelligent creature with combat training would know to ignore a low damage tank and get around it to hit the squishies. So realistically you'd need to tank by physically blocking or being dangerous enough that they can't ignore you.

[Zapp]

But that's exactly the thinking that disables the trinity role separation!

I mean, instead of saying that, instead say you can compel goes to ignore the optimal targets to instead fight you.

That way, you need no blocking rules (that the game doesn't have) and you don't need Fighters to be best at offense as well as defensive.... since dividing up the offense role from the defense role is the cornerstone of Tank-Healer-Damahedealer

[Dr A Gon]

What is trinity role? All google gives me is christian stuff.

In general, forcing a party composition in the general rules is a bad idea. It's especially bad for society play when you're supposed to just turn up with anything and somehow make a functional group.

I can see a good opportunity for optional or 3rd party rules.

EDIT: Or core rules, but not of sufficient mechanical strength to force people to take them, because that will force composition rules on a party, so I think most players will feel them weak.

[Themetricsystem]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the |TANK|DPS|HEALER| Trinity that is a rather solid cornerstone of modern multiplayer online games.

For tabletop, taunts, as they function and are understood in other gaming realms, are considered by many (myself included) a bit too "meta" to feel appropriate for the medium.

[masda_gib]

Zapp wrote:

Yeah, but why then not add actual "aggro" spells?

I mean if you already can make the weaker party members small or invisible or whatever, why not add a method that relies on "magical compulsion" to the mix?

There is no dedicated aggro mechanic because that would have no in-universe explanation, I think.

And what you suggest is already there: There is already compulsion magic. You can cast Command, Suggestion or Dominate with the task to attack just you. Hell, if you can pull it of and trick them into it, you can even do a Geas ritual on your foe to attack only you.

But outside of compulsion magic, clever use of Deception or making yourself a really easy target there is little reason why someone should attack you against their will.

[Dr A Gon]

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=372

Weapon of Judgement