Ability interactions with feat exclusive combat maneuvers


Rules Questions


There are a number of combat maneuvers that aren't part of the standard set, typically only available through feats or class abilities. Some are named maneuvers, like "awesome blow" and others are special types of actions that require a combat maneuver roll, like "stand still".

These are the specific questions I was looking at, in case it varies based on maneuver language.

-Could a maneuver master monk make a flurry of "awesome blow", or "ranged trip" maneuvers?
-Can "special ranged trip maneuvers" be used when a free trip maneuver is granted by some ability?
-Can a Magus select Maneuver Mastery for "stand still".


1. Yes. As long as it's a combat maneuver, maneuver master monk can make it with their flurry of maneuvers.
2. I'd say no, but YMMV
3. Yes. See #1


Assuming the maneuver master monk has the ability to perform the combat maneuver he can flurry with it. For Awesome Blow that would mean he would have to have the feat before he can flurry with it. The same would be true for any other combat maneuver.

No a ranged trip is its own action not a trip. Actually it is a full round action not just an action so no you cannot take a free full round action because you have the ability to make a trip as a free action.

Stand Still is not a combat maneuver. It may use a combat maneuver check to resolve but it is not a combat maneuver. Awesome Blow states in the description it is a combat maneuver, but Stand Still does not. Stand Still can only be used in response to the actions of another creature, not as its own action. Therefore it is not a valid choice for a Magus to use with Maneuver Mastery.

Liberty's Edge

1 Yes, as long as it is a Combat Maneuver.
2 "special ranged trip maneuvers": a search can't find a corresponding piece of text. Can you specify what you mean better?
What the ability says matter.
3 I don't think so.

Quote:
Maneuver Mastery (Ex) (Ultimate Magic pg. 12): The magus has mastered one combat maneuver. He selects one maneuver when selecting this arcana.

So, you need to select a combat maneuver.

Quote:

Stand Still (Combat)

Benefit: When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, you can make a combat maneuver check as your attack of opportunity. If successful, the enemy cannot move for the rest of his turn. An enemy can still take the rest of his action, but cannot move. This feat also applies to any creature that attempts to move from a square that is adjacent to you if such movement provokes an attack of opportunity.

You make a CMB check, but that doesn't make it a combat maneuver.

Compare with:
Quote:

Awesome blow

Benefit: As a standard action, the creature may perform an awesome blow combat maneuver.

Using your CMB to determine something doesn't make that action a combat maneuver. As an example, how well you tie up someone or something is based on your CMB, but that doesn't make tieing up a cravat a combat maneuver.


Ranged Trip: This one makes it sound like a unique use of the trip combat maneuver.

Quote:
"As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a trip combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a –2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional –2 penalty. If the trip attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You can’t be knocked prone by failing the trip attempt."

Ace Trip: This one references the ranged trip feat, but also talks about the "special ranged trip combat maneuver" used on flying creatures.

Quote:
You don’t take the –2 penalty for making trip attempts with a ranged weapon using Ranged Trip, and you can attempt special ranged trip combat maneuver checks against flying creatures. If the combat maneuver succeeds, the target falls at a rate of up to 100 feet per round (assuming it is conscious and attempting to remain airborne; otherwise, it falls at a rate of 500 feet per round) until it hits the ground. Upon impact, it falls prone and takes falling damage (half the normal damage if it fell 100 feet per round; otherwise, normal damage for the distance fallen). A falling creature is considered entangled until it hits the ground, but it can attempt a Fly check at the start of its turn to stop falling before it hits the ground (DC = 15 + your base attack bonus); otherwise, it is unable to move (other than falling) but can act normally.

So the question is, is it a trip maneuver, it's own unique named maneuver "ranged trip", or just an action you can take that requires a combat maneuver check.

I'm inclined to think that it's a trip maneuver that can only be done as a full round action but is otherwise influenced by feats and abilities that apply when making any other trip maneuver, such as from improved trip or maneuver mastery:trip. So no flurry of maneuvers with ace trips, but yes to ace shot>relentless shot>greater trip. But it could be a unique "ranged trip" maneuver that could be flurry of maneuvered but wouldn't interact with greater trip.

Liberty's Edge

Yes, Ranged trip is a variant of the Trip combat maneuver.

No, a Maneuver master monk can't make it as part of a flurry of maneuvers or as part of a flurry of blows.

Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex) wrote:
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action.

Ranged trip requires a full round action, so it can't be part of a flurry of maneuvers, nor of a flurry of blows.

It doesn't replace a melee attack, nor requires a standard action.

The feats and abilities that work with the trip maneuver should work. There can be some difference as you are making a ranged attack and using a full-round action.


The way that exception is written is odd. If it were written:
"At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action."

Then it would be clear that it was an "If X or if Y then apply Z"

With "regardless of" added in, we instead have "Disregard X or Y and apply Z", which leaves us with only the instruction to apply Z.

I assume the archetype was written before full round combat maneuver options existed, and wasn't written in a way that handles them. So I do agree with your interpretation, but thought I'd check and see what other people thought.

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