Spell Tradition Insights


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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The recent wizard niche thread got me thinking about a preconception from P1 I had: Arcane casters have more spells unique to Arcane than any other tradition. I ran the numbers, and it's not true. Here's the breakdown.

Exclusive Spells P2 (exported from Nethys, "All" tab is the main sheet, totals at bottom)

Spell Tradition - Unique/Total
Arcane - 13/343
Divine - 27/185
Occult - 29/300
Primal - 42/246

What does this mean? From a quantity standpoint, Wizards have access to the most spells in their spell list. That's only 14% more than Occult casters and 85% more than Divine casters. Wizards have the least amount of spells unique to the Arcane spell list. That's less than half of Divine and less than a third of Primal.

What are their unique spells?
- Befuddle (enc), Summon Construct (con)H, Temporary Tool (con), Shrink Item (tra), Summon Dragon (con)H, Disintegrate (evo)H, Contingency (abj)H, Entrancing Eyes (enc)SU, Power Word Blind (enc)HU, Spell Turning (abj)U, Power Word Stun (enc)HU, Power Word Kill (enc)HU, Wish (div)

One of those is (S) from an adventure, and five are (U)ncommon.

What qualitative insights does this reveal?
- Where there is more than one spell of a shared theme, it can be seen there is some summoning capability unique to wizards and the Power Word line of spells. It's not enough to demonstrate a unique niche that is clearly the Arcane caster's own, not compared to Divine or Primal whose unique spells are highly thematic (Primal casters have shape change, elemental effects, and nature effects for example). The unique list is too small to draw further conclusions.

Personal Conclusions?
- Wizards have the highest quantitative variety of spells to choose from (although they lack total versatility like healing). Wizards don't have significant numbers of spells that only Arcane casters have access to. It's not a very exclusive list. Occult and Primal have significant overlap with Arcane, almost as many spells to choose from, plus healing.

Someone mentioned Occult eating Arcane's lunch in a recent thread. The numbers tend to agree. I still like Wizards. I've gone through all the stages I see repeated in the threads (denial, anger, rationalization, etc.), and I'm fine with the magic nerfs now. I do wish Wizards had more unique spells, better focus spells, and feats worth taking.

Anyway, anyone surprised by the spread?


Given I ran that analysis almost a year ago, and then again about 6 months ago, not personally, no.


This is interesting. Nice to see some numbers.

I tend to go by roles a spell list can fill over a unique number of spells or what not. I found the Occult list to be the most attractive list in terms of overall capabilities in actual play. Primal and Arcane almost feel the same with Primal having healing and Arcane having more will save attack spells. Divine is the least versatile, but probably the most attractive in a fiend or undead campaign. Fiends and undead are often powerful and in a ton of modules as some of the most powerful enemies, so that can be useful.

Arcane is the third most attractive spell list in my opinion. Even when I make a sorcerer or witch, I prefer the occult or primal spell list. They do more than the Arcane list.


Pages 2 and 3 on this thread have more numbers being discussed, specifically a bit more breakdown from on what spells lists got what, and from Alfa/Polaris on caster slots.


I second that it’s nice to see the numbers. I started noticing this with my Magus who has the witch dedication for occult spells. It was hard finding spells I could steal from occult that weren’t already on both arcane and occult. Personally I think occult has too much overlap with arcane but a lot of this could change when Secrets of Magic comes out.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

What interests me is how I guess limited divine feels. It has by far the fewest number of spells and the second fewest number of unique options. Kind of lines up with my play experience too. Arcane and Occult feel very general purpose and Divine feels very specialized, which has admittedly frustrated a couple of my players playing divine casters. Primal tends to feel sort of in the middle, but still a lot more general purpose than Divine.


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Plane wrote:


What are their unique spells?
- Befuddle (enc), Summon Construct (con)H, Temporary Tool (con), Shrink Item (tra), Summon Dragon (con)H, Disintegrate (evo)H, Contingency (abj)H, Entrancing Eyes (enc)SU, Power Word Blind (enc)HU, Spell Turning (abj)U, Power Word Stun (enc)HU, Power Word Kill (enc)HU, Wish (div)

Personal Conclusions?
- Wizards have the highest quantitative variety of spells to choose from (although they lack total versatility like healing).

Not really surprised I did this analysis too.

Disintegrate (evo)H, Contingency (abj)H, Spell Turning (abj)U are very strong spells with a meta aspect to them. The power words are pretty significant single action spells. So it is all high level but important.

Healing is not such a bad miss considering the healing skill is so strong and you can easily pick it up in a focus spell from one class feat.

Arcane is definitely the best list.


Fingers crossed for more Arcane specific spells in SoM! Though, there's a lot I want to see in that book and I'm starting to wonder how much of it can even fit...

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