How would you kill a Lich... one on one...?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Say it's like a Skyrim dungeon... you are meandering around, exploring on your own, looking for whatever...

You find the crystal claw key trinket and turn the dial in some random door, it opens to a decently sized circular room with pillars lining the walls, some rubble, lots of cobwebs and shadows, bones and BS litter the floor...

In the center of the room, below a ray of moonlight coming through a perfectly positioned skylight, is a coffin that starts to open...

You turn around, but the door has closed behind you.

What class are you? What level are you?

And more importantly, what do you do?

PS. Bare bones CR 12 Lich, straight out the book... don't worry about the phylactery. You just have to best him one on one and you can leave with the loot before he respawns.


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Can I use psionic classes or PFS legal only?


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Ryze Kuja wrote:
Can I use psionic classes or PFS legal only?

I'll allow it.


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VoodistMonk wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Can I use psionic classes or PFS legal only?
I'll allow it.

Ooooo.... now you’re just talking dirty to me <3

Lemme think.... hrmm....


Class: Wizard
Level: 2000
How: however I want to


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Mythic paladin.


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It's funny, I was toying with the idea of seeing how early I could get Stealth high enough to effectively be invisible to the Lich's +24 Perception. I'm sure there is some-odd magical trinket to get past its Life Sight... or maybe the 10' range doesn't even matter before it's too late.

It still takes 10-11 levels in a class/archetype giving you a 1/2 class level bonus to Stealth. But it is possible to have a playable character with a +44 Stealth with about equal class levels as the Lich itself.

As much as I cast shade on Rogues... I wouldn't put it past a halfway decent 11th level Scout delivering the ~114 damage it takes to put a Lich down in one round.

UnChained Rogues get a 2nd weapon for Finesse Training at level 11... in this case it could be a magic Morningstar with Effortless Lace. Or you could just be using an Elven Curveblade with Weapon Versatility... could even get both Weapon Focus and Weapon Versatility with Rogue Talents. Either way, the Damage Reduction could be bypassed relatively easily.

Pirate stacks with Scout, and gives you Unflinching... at that helps a bit with the Will save against the Lich's Fear Aura. And being able to possibly change direction during a charge helps set up your automatic Sneak Attack... even though you only have to move more than 10' for it due to Skirmisher.

I chose Rogue because I really do not respect them... but I think a Rogue could do it alone assuming they were not seen before their first attack. That is literally a Rogue's whole deal.

Although I am not especially talented at building Rogues... or running Lich encounters, for that matter.


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Hellcat stealth and you can just snipe the lich and he'd never see you.

Silver Crusade

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most classes could do this.

Inquisitor
Paladin
Barbarian
wizard

are some that come to mind that would have an easier time than most.


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Make your rogue a wyrwood and you can ignore the fort and will spells the lich has. Focus on evil spell save boosting like ragathiel obedience and void wizard vmc, and you're pretty much set. Take that auspicious birth variation that removes auto failure on natural 1s on reflex saves and then you only have to worry about rays and magic missiles. Learn shield with your 4th level rogue talent. By level 7 you should be able to punch him in the sacrum at your leisure.

That said, the lich out of the book doesn't have his own spell component pouch, and I'm not sure how much that cripples his spell casting.


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Bring in 10' pole, set pole in floor, shatter alchemist's ice/frost over pole, wait for the Lich to get stuck.

"If I lich it, will it hurt me?"


forget going after the lich, go after the phylactery and then let things run their course.

Grand Lodge

If you can find it


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I'd probably have to go with lvl 12 Half-Giant Psychic Warrior with Brawling and Survivor Paths, and with the two Bonus Feats from lvl 8 & 11 and two normal feats from 9 & 11, I pick up the four feat chain for Dimensional Agility --> Savant. Probably pick up Step Up & Strike chain prior to that. And make sure I pick up the lvl 2 power Psionic Lion's Charge. Level 11th Survivor Path Maneuver provides Improved Mettle, which is like Improved Evasion but for Fort/Will Saves, so I'm pretty safe with Psychic Warrior being a Wis-focused class, and I can manifest Vigor as part of an attack each round, so hopefully I can just soak any dmg received from a failed Reflex save.

I figure the only way Mr. Lich is getting away is with DDoor or some other teleportation, so being able to follow him and force big Conc checks via Full Attacks from Dimensional Savant or Psionic Lion's Charge is going to be my primary strategy.

Silver Crusade

TwilightKnight wrote:
If you can find it

Commune

Would likely be able to find the lich's phylactery


rorek55 wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:
If you can find it

Commune

Would likely be able to find the lich's phylactery

Probably for the Lich in the Bestiary... he has Illusion as one of his Opposition Schools... meaning he probably won't have Decrepit Disguise, False Vision, Loathsome Veil, or Screen...

Not a high enough level to have Sequester, but could use a scroll. Too bad Sequester doesn't appear to be able to be made permenant.

Commune is tough to beat without something like a Warding Box.


TwilightKnight wrote:
If you can find it

Well, unless you can find it, you won't be killing the lich....


rorek55 wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:
If you can find it

Commune

Would likely be able to find the lich's phylactery

Commune might be able to find it, but it's going to depend on your GM.

If I was the GM, and the lich was a major plot point commune isn't going to get you there. It might get you to some clues, but your not going to binary search around the globe (technically need to start with the planes) and narrow it down to somewhere you can easily search.

At a certain point I'm going to start responding "Uncertain". Remember you only get yes, no, and uncertain as answers. You're not owed any more than that.

I would probably go as far as:
"Is it on the planes of Shaodws?" "No"
"Is it on the material plane?" "Yes"
"Is it on Garound?" "No"
"Is it on Avistan?" "Yes"
"Is it in Cheliax?" "Yes"
"Is it in West Crown?" "Unclear"

It'll narrow down where you looking to something that I feel is actually able to be investigated, but not to the precise location.

Of course, this will vary by GM.


And, honestly, depends which deity you are asking... not every god is going to concern themselves with the whereabouts of random Lich phylacteries.

Literally, why the hell would your god know the location of this particular Lich's phylactery? What are the chances of that?


VoodistMonk wrote:

And, honestly, depends which deity you are asking... not every god is going to concern themselves with the whereabouts of random Lich phylacteries.

Literally, why the hell would your god know the location of this particular Lich's phylactery? What are the chances of that?

Have Pharasma as your deity then. She hates undead, and it is her job to know everyone's life, as she is the one who judges souls. She would in fact know where it is.


Finding and destroying a phylactery more or less comes down to whether or not the DM wants it to happen, and how your DM interprets the soul/lich relationship. Maybe your DM does something easy like hiding it in the lich's dungeon, or sticks it in a powerful weapon that you'd rather keep, or he's a bit rough and puts it in the lich's "harrowed home" where time doesn't pass unless the lich is currently in the personal almost inaccessible demiplane. Or the DM says "You found it, his phylactery is the sun" and you decide how to go to space and kill the thing every few days.

Voodist was right to limit it to just killing the body. The best way to find and destroy the phylactery is probably to be dating the DM.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:

And, honestly, depends which deity you are asking... not every god is going to concern themselves with the whereabouts of random Lich phylacteries.

Literally, why the hell would your god know the location of this particular Lich's phylactery? What are the chances of that?

Have Pharasma as your deity then. She hates undead, and it is her job to know everyone's life, as she is the one who judges souls. She would in fact know where it is.

She's not under any obligation to tell you though.

And also, it says you contact your deity or agents thereof.

Really, the spell commune is not a guarantee of getting to know things.

As a GM, if the lich is important (and if I include a lich it's probably important and not a random NPC) then your not going to bypass the search part of the quest by calling Dial-A-Deity.


ErichAD wrote:

Finding and destroying a phylactery more or less comes down to whether or not the DM wants it to happen, and how your DM interprets the soul/lich relationship. Maybe your DM does something easy like hiding it in the lich's dungeon, or sticks it in a powerful weapon that you'd rather keep, or he's a bit rough and puts it in the lich's "harrowed home" where time doesn't pass unless the lich is currently in the personal almost inaccessible demiplane. Or the DM says "You found it, his phylactery is the sun" and you decide how to go to space and kill the thing every few days.

Voodist was right to limit it to just killing the body. The best way to find and destroy the phylactery is probably to be dating the DM.

Most of these seem beyond the means of an 11th level Necromancer....


True, I'd need to change him from a necromancer:wizard to a harrow bloodline sorcerer with a robe of arcane heritage for the harrowed home thing to work. I could work it down a little bit and have it available by 9th level I think, and buy back necromancer as well but then he'd be an arcanist 7/harrow:sorcerer1/necromancer:wizard1, so not the listed necromancer, and about the most useless lich out there despite being nearly impossible to defeat permanently.

Enchanting the sun as a wonderous item is sort of not governed by the rules in any way. Eziah is a 16th level wizard who lives in a tower on the sun, so it's not too far out of the way, though I don't know how he does it. Apparently the golarion sun is powered by a "Starheart" protected by Jyoti, so you'd need to deal with that at least. I guess 4 damnation feats for fire immunity and gravity sphere aren't quite going to cut it for hanging out there normally.


ErichAD wrote:
...Apparently the golarion sun is powered by a "Starheart" protected by Jyoti, so you'd need to deal with that at least. I guess 4 damnation feats for fire immunity and gravity sphere aren't quite going to cut it for hanging out there normally.

Well, the lore is that there is a gateway to the Positive Energy plane at the heart of every star, though it is likely minuscule. Those gateways serve as the pathway for souls to be dispersed to the Material Realm. Those gates are, indeed, guarded by the Jyoti (positive energy plane natives).

Honestly, if I was going to take on this Lich (with foreknowledge of the solo nature of the fight), I'd take my favorite Skald build and tweak it a bit so that it can't be fatigued or instant-killed by the Lich's magic. The only thing to really worry about is that Enervation spell. Everything else can be dealt with by picking up the right weapon (a +1 holy Lucrene Hammer), bullrushing that Lich out of any globes it might put up (that's my globe now, lich!), and bludgeoning it to death when it provokes attacks of opportunity when it casts its spells. It doesn't even have spell resistance.


Rocket tag. If you're solo you better hit hard and hit fast, so we're gonna blast the Lich before it gets a chance to act.

Shooty McTooty, Cyclopean Seer Oracle 8 / Black Powder Vaulter Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger 1:
Ifrit (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis) with the Wildfire Heart/Pass for Human ART

Character Traits:
Harrow Chosen (+2 CL to all Divination spells)
Killer (+4 dmg to crits with x4 weapons)

===

Oracle 1-6, Gunslinger 1, Oracle 7-8

Feats:
1 Skill Focus
3 Equipment Trick (Sunrod)
5 Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)
7 Rapid Shot (Double Hackbut), Gunsmithing (B)
9 Deadly Aim

===

Magic Items:
+2 Dexterity Belt (expected Dex is 18)
+4 Charisma Headband (expected Cha is 24)

+1 small Double Hackbut

Irongrip Gauntlets

===

Initiative: +12

Attack Routine (Focused Aim, Deadly Aim)
+10 (2d10+12, x4)

***

Short breakdown:
Cyclopean Seer Oracle can steal any Divination spells from other spell lists without increasing the spell level, just as that Samsaran ART. The minor hiccup is that you must wait until you can cast one spell level above that to grab the spell, but we're using the Equipment Trick (Sunrod) cheese to grab Greater Named Bullet at Oracle level 8 (and Named Bullet at level 6).
Even if the cheese isn't allowed, the spell levels stay the same.

The level in gunslinger gives us Cha-to-Dmg, and the ability to reload and move at the same time. Since we're using a two-handed firearm it's basically a free move action.

Named Bullet (and Greater) are both touch spells, so the familiar we get from Eldritch Heritage can hold the charge on these spells. If we've pre-cast the spell and start fighting, our familiar can use their standard action to activate the spell and choose the subtype.

***

We hopefully win Initiative with our +12 bonus and our familiar activates the Greater Named Bullet spell charge it has been holding. As we move into a good position to fire the small Double Hackbut (2d10, x4) we'll use the Gunslinger abilities to reload and add Cha to dmg. Then we attack.

That ends up doing 8d10+72, 116 average, so just enough to one-shot the Lich. I'm hilarious.
We can do that four times per day at level 8, and seven times more with the normal Named Bullet if we've applied Weapon of Awe before the fight. The misfire value is however 1-3, so there's just a 72.25% chance of confirming the crit.


If you accept the spell sanctify the wicked from the book of exalted deeds of dungeons and dragons 3.5 y Will used that whit an mithyc arcanista lv 20 whit the mithyc potent magic


That's just good fun. I really like your application of the Killer trait... it is a favorite of mine for Bolt Ace Gunslingers using the Dwarven PelletBow for a 17-20/×4 bludgeoning crossbow. Lol.

How early can that Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/School Savant Arcanist just nuke him and be done with it? I believe the build breakdown I read involved an Elf with the Overhelming Magic alternative racial feature, or Illustrious Urbanite, or possibly both?

Any Command Undead specialist that can just force him to take you to his phylactery? Start a collection of phylateries and blackmail the Liches into doing your bidding? The dangerous games play...


I have the only existing copy of the spell Blood Money. I pour oil on myself, hold a lit torch in one hand, and the scroll in the other. I offer the scroll as payment if he destroys his current body himself, and he knows full well that if he attacks me, I'll drop dead, torch lights me on fire due to oil, and the scroll gets burned as a result.


I would do better,I propose a bet, he we would play pathfinder as the hero and I as the Lich. If he kills the Lich he decides what to do with me; but if I killed him he will become my follower or he gives me all his possessions including where he keeps his soul


VoodistMonk wrote:
How early can that Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/School Savant Arcanist just nuke him and be done with it? I believe the build breakdown I read involved an Elf with the Overhelming Magic alternative racial feature, or Illustrious Urbanite, or possibly both?

To wipe out 111 HP you need about 32d6, or 21(d6+2). Thing is, the lich has globe of invulnerability prepared and while that cuts down its offensive options it also stops most optimised blasters cold.

For an I win button a full spellcaster or summoner of level 8 or so with a vicious pet can pile defensive spells on to the two of them (start with protection from energy:fire) and beat the lich into the dust, though more slowly than Wonderstell's gunslinger. Or a warpriest, magus etc. of about the same level can do the same singlehanded.


Wonderstell wrote:
The misfire value is however 1-3, so there's just a 72.25% chance of confirming the crit.

Apparently misfire values don't affect confirmation rolls (FAQ). So we jump up to a 80.75% chance of critically hitting the Lich.

===

VoodistMonk wrote:
That's just good fun. I really like your application of the Killer trait... it is a favorite of mine for Bolt Ace Gunslingers using the Dwarven PelletBow for a 17-20/×4 bludgeoning crossbow. Lol.

It's actually surprisingly hard to find a good damage trait. The Killer trait is worth one additional damage (multiplied by crit), and only when you've confirmed it. So compared to River Rat or Weapon Specialization it's worth what, 0.1 of a feat?

It seems like a rule that no matter how specific the circumstances for when the bonus to damage applies, it won't ever go over +1. When you're the only one threatening, or if you're a Grippli within 30 ft of your target with a ranged weapon and on higher ground, they're both just +1.

The one exception seems to be Shadow Stabber, which gives you +2 to damage if you're a Tiefling in melee fighting against foes that can't see you.

Definitely not something I would take in a normal game.


Kill him with a scimitar vorpal An voala


12th level vanilla cleric with a prayer-loadout set for dungeons/undead would handle him pretty easily; disruptive weapon + divine power or righteous might, undeath to death, spellcrash, spell immunity, resist energy or protection, deathward, protection from evil, etc...just kind of pick how you want to end its undead existence from a multitude of options.

I kind of like the idea of deathward, spell immunity and then spellcrashing the lich and just watching it eventually break down into tears as it's rendered useless.


Finding the phylactery could be easy depending on how your DM interprets the Spirit Sleuth ability of the Inquisitor:Expulsionist:
" upon interacting with a rejuvenating undead (such as a ghost) or haunt for the first time (such as by attacking the ghost or channeling energy to damage the haunt), an expulsionist can attempt a Sense Motive check as a free action to determine the specific course of action required to permanently neutralize the spirit of haunt (DC = 20 + the target’s CR)."

"You intuit that the lich can only be killed if you destroy the dam above the regional capitol. You get the further impression that sufficient explosives to destroy the dam could be made using this formula..."

I'm not sure I could turn spirit sleuth into a lich killer on top of that though.


As a GM, I would probably say "The specific course of action is destroying it's phylactery which looks like X". But would not include it's location. You would know what you're looking for, but that's honestly only a small help.

Again though, it's because if I use a Lich they're narratively important. Abilities like that just aren't going to go as far, because the narrative of struggling to find the phylactery is an important part of the story.


The argument about how to find a phylactery is irrelevant to the original post. It specifically stated to ignore it.

A 12th level dervish dancing inquisitor of Sarenrae with the fire domain would make short work out of the lich in the bestiary. Activating Judgements of protection and purity are going to make it tough the lich to affect the inquisitor. Looking over the spells listed for the lich most of them are either fire or target touch AC. The Inquisitor will have a high touch AC because DEX is its primary combat stat. That will also boost his reflex save to be on par with his other saves. Judgement of purity will further boost his saves. Stalwart will make him even harder to affect. Cloud Kill has a good chance of doing absolutely nothing to him. He is also too high level for circle of death. The maximized fire ball will probably do about 10 points of damage. Stalwart also means he will probably ignore ray of enfeeblement.

In the meantime, greater bane plus divine favor gives the inquisitor decent damage. It will probably take the inquisitor about 2 or 3 rounds to take out the lich. Weapon Versatility will allow the inquisitor to deal bludgeoning damage with the scimitar to ignore it DR.

I freely admit this character was specifically designed to take down the lich in the bestiary, but he would still do well against any lich.


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Ouch...

But, to be fair... a 12th level Inquisitor not only outranks the Lich in class levels, but also conveniently gets Greater Bane... nobody likes a bully, and this is just mean...

The bestiary Lich is a b!tch, for sure... a sad example, but I am only asking for a solo dance...

Best me, and I go back to sleep... leave my phylactery out of it...


The lich is listed as a CR12 challenge. That means it is supposed to be a level appropriate challenge for a party of 12th level characters. The inquisitor is a single 12th level character. But if you are going by character level an 11th level inquisitor would probably also be able to win fairly easily. Stalwart comes online at 11th level and the bonus for the judgements are the same at 11th or 12th level. At 11th level an inquisitor can easily afford a Bane baldric. The only difference would be the inquisitor has 1 less on both chances to hit and saving throws, and has 10 points less of fire resistance.

A paladin would also far fairly well against the lich. The paladin defenses may not be as high, but he can offset a lot of damage with lay on hands. With the right mercies this can also remove conditions that the lich can inflict. The paladin will have greater offensive ability than the inquisitor.

Surprisingly a 11th level core monk actually fairs fairly well vs the lich in the bestiary. His immunity to poison means cloud kill does nothing. His touch AC is absolutely ridiculous so half the lich’s spells are useless. Evasion and a high reflex save renders even more spells ineffective. Magic Missile is about the only spell on the list that is going to be effective vs the monk. The lich does not have that good of an AC so hitting is not the problem. If the monk goes for a DEX based build and uses Piranha Strike instead of power attack they can still put out decent damage. A Monk’s robe will boost up the AC and damage even more. The lich requires a natural 20 to hit the monk with anything that requires an attack roll. The monk will hit the lich on around a 9 or better with 3 attacks (Using Ki to get an extra attack).

To be honest the lich in the bestiary is not that powerful as a one on one encounter. Throw in some minions and he becomes a lot more difficult to deal with, but a lot of classes can take him down in a one to one fight.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
The lich is listed as a CR12 challenge. That means it is supposed to be a level appropriate challenge for a party of 12th level characters. The inquisitor is a single 12th level character.

I mean sure, that's the theory. But we all know that's not how it actually works.

An optimized level 12 party is likely to be completely unchallenged by a CR 12 encounter. And even with an unoptimized party it's supposed to be the kind of encounter you can handle at least 3 or 4 of in a day.

My personal experience is that the standard "speedbump" encounter for an optimized party was about CR+2/3. And that CR+5 was where an appropriate boss level challenge happened.

Although I achieved this not by providing a one on one fight with a creature five levels above, but by adding enough minions to go with the boss that was 3 levels above. In the case of a lich I'd probably have hordes of human zombies and skeletons that aren't controlled and mostly just set the scene of the encounter (and don't figure into the CR of the fight, except by essentially being terrain).

Also, the Bestiary Lich is a b&$+& and no one should run a lich like that. The spell selection isn't very good IMO.


Does destroying a lich's phylactery automatically kill it? Or do you still have to kill it seperately? If it's the first, I would find the phylactery and shatter it before the lich can get to me.


Yqatuba wrote:
Does destroying a lich's phylactery automatically kill it? Or do you still have to kill it seperately? If it's the first, I would find the phylactery and shatter it before the lich can get to me.

Not exactly sure on the answer to this.

The Phylactery of Jadis-Vel whispers in your ear, teaching you how to become a Lich. When you complete the ritual, Jadis-Vel returns to unlife as a Lich in your body... but she needs to build a new phylactery to become immortal, again.

So, it appears a Lich is capable of making a new phylactery...


In order to successfully kill a (standard) lich, I've always understood it as you must kill/destroy lich and phylactery at the same time. Destroying the phylactery doesn't kill the lich, but killing the lich does buy you time to destroy the phylactery.

It doesn't matter which you do first, as long as the phylactery is destroyed (and a new one not made) and the lich is also destroyed.


Honestly, phylactery-hunting is an entirely different thread, guys... specifically left that BS out of this one because it's 100% DM fluff, fighting the Gamemaster is stupid...

Let's fight the pathetic bestiary Lich with this one...

Who can put him down the earliest?


Lv 8 Weapon Shift Pouncer:
Human
Bloodrager 1 / Weretouched Shifter 4 / XXXX 1 / Drill Sergeant Fighter 2

Ability Scores:
Start with 18 Strength and 14 Wis. 4th and 8th in Strength.

Feats and levels:
Bloodrager
1 Improved Initiative, Extra Rage, Bloodline Familiar (Valet, +4 Initiative familiar)
Shifter 4
2
3 Power Attack
4
5 Planar Wild Shape, Lycanthropic Wild Shape (Deinonychus)

XXXX
6

Fighter 2
7 Weapon Shift, Improved Weapon Shift (B)
8 Greater Weapon Shift (B), +1 Teamwork Feat (B)

Magic Items:
+1 Furious Monk's Spade (8,000)
Undead Bane AoMF (4,000)
Scabbard of Vigor x3 (5,600)
Rhino Hide (5,165)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)

9,235 / 33,000

Attack Routine: (Raging, PA, Wild-shaped, Charging)
+4 Furious Bane
+23 Bite (1d6+22+4d6)
+23/+23 Claw/Claw (1d4+22+4d6)
+23/+23 Talon/Talon (1d8+22+4d6)

Damage Type: B and S and P, (or), B or S or P (depending on how you interpret Weapon Shift)

***

Short breakdown:
Weretouched Shifter grants us five primary natural attacks and Pounce while wild-shaped.

Rhino Hide applies +2d6 damage on charge attacks.

Greater Weapon Shift allows us to apply a weapon's enhancement bonus and weapon abilities to all of our natural attacks when we're using Wild Shape, and use its damage type. So with the Monk's Spade then every natural attack would gain the +1 Furious benefit. But we're also using a Scabbard of Vigor to boost the Monk's Spade enhancement bonus up to +4 Furious just before we use Wild Shape.

So with the Bane AoMF we're running around with +4 Furious Bane natural attacks. A +8 enhancement bonus while raging and attacking undead targets.

Our Initiative should be at least +11, with room for improvement.

***

Looking at the Lich's flat-footed AC we'll still hit on a natural 2 even if we fail the fear aura DC. As long as we don't miss with two out of five attacks, which is very unlikely, it dies in a single pounce.

Does anyone know how the Guardian weapon ability works with natural attacks? It would be pretty great to be able to dump one natural attack and get +6 to all saves in return.


I think the Lich pretty much loses to grapple, long as you don’t have to worry about paralysis (Duergar etc.). I think a 7th level Shifter might work, bit does Duergar immunity go away when you Shift?


The best I can do is a 4th level Wyrwood unchained rogue.
Tr: Deft Dodger
L1: Auspicious Birth - Apparent Retrograde
L3: Celestial Obedience Ragathiel
R2: Minor Magic: Acid Splash
R4: Major Magic: Shield twice per day
trading darkvision for makewhole, since we lose darkvision as a songbird anyway.

Ring of Seven Lovely Colors 4000
Cloak of Resistance 1000
wand of magic fang 750
ioun torchx3 225 (continual flame cast by cleric for higher level light)
Dex is 18+2+8 = +9 mod
Reflex is 4+9+1+1+1=16 +4 vs. evil for +20
Auspicious birth prevents autofail on nat 1, and we save and evade everything on a natural 1.

Wyrwood are only subject to the following Bestiary Lich Spells and abilities.
Fireball
Cone of Cold
Magic Missile
Fire Shield
Wall of Ice
Dispel Magic
Scorching Ray

If he fails to dispel the polymorph and instead hits the shield spell, then he hits with quickened magic missiles once. AC is 29, with a 22 touch so those scorching rays are a minor problem. We can wait out fire shield, but it's 2 minutes of our 8 minutes of shield spell, so we'll acid splash while we wait. Otherwise we're pecking away at him at +17 to hit and 1d3+16 damage.

I think that should do the trick, but I could be missing something. I could probably get slightly lower by using 1 level hunter for evasion from mouse focus and shield from investigator, but then we're pecking for ever without 1.5 dex to damage on the beak.


Not bad. Not bad at all.

(But you'd only add +4 to Dex from Beast Shape as you're transforming into an animal, not a magical beast.)

Some countermeasures I can think of is that if it takes too long to take the Lich down, they could just escape. And while you're waiting out the Fire Shield with Acid Splash, the Lich can also return the favor with Ray of Frost.
Additionally, if the Lich creates the Wall of Ice around you instead of adjacent, there's no save. Then you'd need to either wait out the min/level effect or take 1d6+11 cold damage when you're breaking through.

The last option the undead archmage has is to roll up their sleeves, display their "snitches gets Liches" tattoo, and go for the grapple. It should honestly have a pretty good shot at locking you in an endless pinning cycle since Escape Artist only reduces Pinned to Grappled.


The lich can use Wall of Ice to imprison you when you cast shield. His duration exceeds that of your shield so he can neutralize your shield spell pretty easily. His globe of Invulnerability stops your Acid splash from affecting him. Fire shield means that you take damage from attacking him.

The scorching rays will probably do around 28 points of damage based on your touch AC and the fact he has 2 memorized. The downside of being a construct is you have no CON bonus to increase your HP so chances are that is a substantial portion of your HP at 4th level. A singe Magic Missile after that will take you down. The lich also has a touch attack that does 1d8+5 points of negative energy damage. While you are immune to the paralysis portion of the attack you still take damage.

The lich also has Arcane Bond object so can cast any spell out of his book without it being memorized. Without knowing what is in his book it hard to figure what the best spell would be. If he is limited to what he has memorized that would probably be another Scorching ray. That would bring the damage from those up to about 42 HP which is probably more HP than a 4th level rogue with no CON bonus has.

Sorry but the odds favor the lich in this case.


The lich would have trouble with the initial grapple needing a 16, but yeah once the pin is locked in the birdy is in trouble.

I don't think you can take AoOs when someone grapples you without feats unless you threaten their square, but I'm not 100% sure AoOs provoked by something other than actions taken in threatened squares require you to threaten their square. Assuming you need to threaten, lich probably grapples twice before you hit 7 times.

I'm also not sure the ring turns you into a real raven rather than a magical beast using a ravens statistics, you don't gain the creatures type, you just use forms permitted by the spell.

The wall of ice doesn't do damage if you do the hemisphere trap.

That said, it is a little shakier than I thought. Birdy could pull it off, but only with some luck. Maybe a level of teleportation wizard?

Guess I'll mess around with the investigator/hunter option. I have to keep it below 7th, otherwise you take 4 damnation feats(damned wyrwood? why not) to be immune to fire and ice instead and just work on manual killing.

Edit: Constructs don't take damage from negative energy since: "Negative damage harms the life force of living creatures", so no worries about the touch attack. The lich has no listed bonded object, and no listed spell book, he's a poor quality lich as has been mentioned. The ice wall only has 33 hp, getting stuck in the hemisphere costs the birdie 2 turns.

but those pesky ranged touch attacks are a problem.

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