inappropriately sized weapons


Rules Questions


Does anyone know of a way to remove or reduce the penalties for wielding a weapon designed for creatures smaller than yourself? I know effortless lace does this for weapons designed for larger creatures, but cant find anything for small weapons.

The Exchange

Mango#6568 wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to remove or reduce the penalties for wielding a weapon designed for creatures smaller than yourself? I know effortless lace does this for weapons designed for larger creatures, but cant find anything for small weapons.

Are you wanting to wield small weapons or are you OK with changing the weapons to be your size?

Ring of Perfect Sizing changes the size of one weapon or armor that is within two size categories of your size. Lasts as long as you have possession of the weapon, but it goes back to it's normal size one round later.

Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers will change a weapon or armor's size up or down permanently. It may take several applications if the weapon is really small to start with.


Belafon wrote:
Mango#6568 wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to remove or reduce the penalties for wielding a weapon designed for creatures smaller than yourself? I know effortless lace does this for weapons designed for larger creatures, but cant find anything for small weapons.

Are you wanting to wield small weapons or are you OK with changing the weapons to be your size?

Ring of Perfect Sizing changes the size of one weapon or armor that is within two size categories of your size. Lasts as long as you have possession of the weapon, but it goes back to it's normal size one round later.

Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers will change a weapon or armor's size up or down permanently. It may take several applications if the weapon is really small to start with.

I was hoping to use a two handed weapon in one hand, in order to do that i would use a small version of the weapon but i dont want the -2 for using an inapropriatly sized weapon. Would either of those items help with that?


Irongrip Gauntlets.

This is the only way to reduce the penalties for using an undersized weapon, afaik.

The Exchange

Quote:
I was hoping to use a two handed weapon in one hand, in order to do that i would use a small version of the weapon but i dont want the -2 for using an inapropriatly sized weapon. Would either of those items help with that?

No, it wouldn't.

I'm kinda curious what you're trying to do here. Mechanically, if you are wielding a small two-hander it would count as a one-handed weapon for all feats and abilities related to weapon size category (CRB page 144).

If there's just a cool two-handed weapon you like and want to use as an off-hand weapon, then lets keep digging.


Wonderstell wrote:

Irongrip Gauntlets.

This is the only way to reduce the penalties for using an undersized weapon, afaik.

Thank you this should work perfect.


Belafon wrote:
Quote:
I was hoping to use a two handed weapon in one hand, in order to do that i would use a small version of the weapon but i dont want the -2 for using an inapropriatly sized weapon. Would either of those items help with that?

No, it wouldn't.

I'm kinda curious what you're trying to do here. Mechanically, if you are wielding a small two-hander it would count as a one-handed weapon for all feats and abilities related to weapon size category (CRB page 144).

If there's just a cool two-handed weapon you like and want to use as an off-hand weapon, then lets keep digging.

I want to use the seven branched sword in my off hand to make enemies flat-footed.


So a feat cause it's Exotic, plus a magic item to reduce it's penalty, plus a trip check, all to get your opponent "flat-footed".

Seems like there must be a better/cheaper way

The Exchange

TxSam88 wrote:

So a feat cause it's Exotic, plus a magic item to reduce it's penalty, plus a trip check, all to get your opponent "flat-footed".

Seems like there must be a better/cheaper way

Actually sounds pretty smart to me. It is really hard to give enemies the actual flat-footed condition. If all you are after is making them lose their dex bonus (be sneak-attackable) there are more efficient ways but there are some abilities that can only be used on flat-footed opponents. And this way only costs you one attack out of a full attack.


TxSam88 wrote:
Seems like there must be a better/cheaper way
The struts on this reinforcing boss bear large, sturdy hooks, which can be used to snag an opponent’s clothing or armor, causing it to stumble. You can attempt trip combat maneuver checks with this shield. If the combat maneuver check is successful, the opponent does not fall prone, but is considered flat-footed until the beginning of its next turn.

The downside is that it weighs an extra 10 lbs, but it can be equipped on a light weapon (the light shields).

The Exchange

Shield boss is a good idea too. It’s going to depend on what class Mango is playing and how the sword or shield might synergize with other abilities. (Such as weapon training.) If you go the shield route you’re probably going to want to take the Improved Shield Bash feat, though it isn’t absolutely necessary.


Belafon wrote:
Shield boss is a good idea too. It’s going to depend on what class Mango is playing and how the sword or shield might synergize with other abilities. (Such as weapon training.) If you go the shield route you’re probably going to want to take the Improved Shield Bash feat, though it isn’t absolutely necessary.

it's kind of a wierd multiclass, but i was planing on doing, 1lvl scaled fist monk, 5lvl synthesist, 9lvl bladebound kensai, 1lvl dual cursed oracle and 4lvl two weapon warrior.


Belafon wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:

So a feat cause it's Exotic, plus a magic item to reduce it's penalty, plus a trip check, all to get your opponent "flat-footed".

Seems like there must be a better/cheaper way

Actually sounds pretty smart to me. It is really hard to give enemies the actual flat-footed condition. If all you are after is making them lose their dex bonus (be sneak-attackable) there are more efficient ways but there are some abilities that can only be used on flat-footed opponents. And this way only costs you one attack out of a full attack.

It's costing you a Feat, a magic item, and an attack (plus a trip check). I can't think of a single ability that works on flat footed opponents that are worth that. Care to name one or two?

The Exchange

Medusa’s Wrath comes to mind. An unchained monk is already proficient with the seven-branched sword, can use it in a flurry, and can take Medusa’s Wrath as a bonus feat at 10th level.

Sap Master only works on flat-footed opponents as well. (Though I would take the shield boss route for that build.)

I’m not sure the gloves are really a must-have for the sword build. Essentially it’s just +2 on the trip attempt. Worth taking if you have the money and don’t plan on using any other gloves.

The Exchange

The more I ponder it, the more I think it's actually a pretty good Unchained Monk build. You wouldn't need to use the undersized weapon at all since monks can make unarmed attacks while wielding a weapon in two hands. And unchained monks get the 1-1/2 strength bonus on two-handed weapons.

Levels 1-9: Just do whatever you would have done otherwise
Level 6 Bonus Feat: Improved Trip
Level 10 Bonus Feat: Medusa's Wrath

Level 10+ Flurry
First attack: Trip with seven-branched sword
Stuff in the middle: Attack for damage with seven-branched sword in two hands
Last attack: unarmed strike (doesn't have to hit)
Medusa's Wrath: Two free unarmed strikes at highest BAB


Belafon wrote:

First attack: Trip with seven-branched sword

Stuff in the middle: Attack for damage with seven-branched sword in two hands
Last attack: unarmed strike (doesn't have to hit)
Medusa's Wrath: Two free unarmed strikes at highest BAB

Can be done even easier: Just take Ascetic Style (and Ascetic Form, for the style strike and ki pool bonus attack) and make all attacks with the SBS.

Belafon wrote:
monks can make unarmed attacks while wielding a weapon in two hands.

Everyone can do that, actually, as long as they aren't using TWF. Making the first attack with a two-handed weapon and iterative/Haste attacks with unarmed strikes (kicks/headbutts) is perfectly legal for anyone. Indeed, it's even legal to drop the sword (possibly with weapon cord attached) and either quickdraw a weapon or attack with one already on your hands (e.g. gauntlet or handwraps).

The Exchange

Derklord wrote:
Belafon wrote:

First attack: Trip with seven-branched sword

Stuff in the middle: Attack for damage with seven-branched sword in two hands
Last attack: unarmed strike (doesn't have to hit)
Medusa's Wrath: Two free unarmed strikes at highest BAB
Can be done even easier: Just take Ascetic Style (and Ascetic Form, for the style strike and ki pool bonus attack) and make all attacks with the SBS.

Ascetic Style is a good add. I don't know that I'd qualify that as "easier," though. You have to take two more feats (Weapon Focus and Ascetic Style), so you're really focusing on the seven-branched sword at that point. The point I was trying to make is that as long as the monk picked up Improved Trip as his 6th level bonus feat (never a bad choice) he could play however he wanted until 10th level then use the Medusa's Wrath combo without spending additional resources.

Derklord wrote:
Belafon wrote:
You wouldn't need to use the undersized weapon at all since monks can make unarmed attacks while wielding a weapon in two hands.
Everyone can do that, actually, as long as they aren't using TWF.

Yeah, could have said that better. The reason for the small seven-branched sword in the OP's idea was for TWF. I meant to say that monk flurry can use a combination of two-handed weapons and unarmed attacks, so there was no reason for the small weapon and no need for the Irongrip Gauntlets.


7B sword aside, the other obvious reason for using a small 2H weapon in one hand is reach. A 1H fauchard sounds quite handy. I can't immediately find any rule to say that this isn't going to work, but as I've never heard of it being done I imagine I've missed something.


The most gruesome option: graft on a limb from a creature that is your size that can wield oversized weapons (e.g. Flood Troll, some tieflings (Variant Tiefling Abilities) or ogrekin (Beneficial Deformities). Also, oversized limbs seems like something you should get via polymorph type spells - but you don't get extraordinary abilities.

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