Hi guys,
Our DM will run Extinction Curse. I'm trying to build a character that would be a monkey trainer (or some other animal) but I am getting a bit lost in analysis paralysis due to a lack of familiarity with Pathfinder.
Would it be better to pick a Druid or a Ranger or some other class? Some online posts even mention that you can be a Fighter with some feat but it's not entirely clear.
Basically my goals are a) to have the animal do various tasks and make roleplay fun b) have a class that is fun to play in itself with various options
Alternatively, I could be a Druid who wildshapes into a monkey for the purpose of the circus but I don't know if that's viable
I'm not sure what the other players intend to pick for now, except we'll probably have a Champion and an Alchemist
If all you want is the animal companion then the Beastmaster from APG is probably what fits better.
Note that if you use Beastmaster to get an animal companion on a class that doesn't usually get one you'd be waiting till level two - you might be able to convince your GM to give you an advance on the feat but it'd probably be easier to just go with Ranger.
I'd recommend Ranger over Druid for the animal companion route because the ape's support benefit is quite good but requires you to make strikes, so a martial character is the right way to go for it.
If you're more interested in the transforming into a monkey I think I'd actually recommend Barbarian over Druid there; I don't want to make Druid sound like a bad class by naysaying it because it isn't but Druid wild shape is a poor choice for "I want to be X animal" because you need to keep upgrading your polymorphs to stay relevant. An Animal Instinct Barbarian can stay ape themed forever and still be good.
I appreciate the help. Are the Barbarian and Ranger classes more varied than what they can do in D&D 5e at lower levels? I've played those two and was a bit underwhelmed in terms of roleplaying possibilities and variety in combat
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One thing to note, as written the circus is really NOT a huge focus of the game. As long as you can do something during the circus acts you'll be fine.
Do NOT make the mistake of building your character around the circus. Have a skill or two, maybe a skill feat and you're done. As is true for just about all Paizo products this AP has lots and lots of combat, dungeon delving, wilderness exploring, etc.
I'm NOT saying ignore the circus, I am saying build a completely viable character outside the circus and then tweak it a little by (at the least) making it competent in one relevant skll.
So the question isn't which class goes best with a monkey trainer, They ALL can with only a little tweaking (Wisdom 14+, nature as a trained skill). The question is what class do you want to play OUTSIDE of the circus.
That said, I am greatly enjoying my animal loving (to a somewhat ridiculous extent :-)) druid.
As people already said, the circus isn't the focus of this campaign as written. I DM this AP and my players wanted the circus to be a more central piece, so I changed some things here and there to make that possible. So, ask your DM and fellow players what is the intent.
If you want to use an animal as a battle buddy, look at Animal Triner (link) and Beastmaster (link) as Archetypes that can work with any class. You can burn a Class Feat to take an Archetype Feat of equal or lower level. Ask your DM about "Free Archetype variant rule", but note that not every table goes nice with this variant rule.
If you dont want to use an animal in battle, but you want to use it out of combat, take a look at the Familiars. Some classes (witch, wizard, druid, sorcerer that I remember) gain acess to them, as well as some ancestries (gnome is the only one that I can remember). You can gain one as an Archetype(Familiar Master) too.
Now, if you only want an animal to do your circus tricks, you could do that simply using Nature. Maybe using a skill feat like Train Animal or Bonded Animal.
If you want to transform into the animal and fight, you have two main options. Barbarian Animal Instinct to be best on fights, or Druid to be ok in fights but being a caster. Note that casters are not the Gods that they are in other editions. Martial and Caster are now on the same level. When a Caster begins to feel like a super being, the Martial are feeling the same thing.
As a Martial you can simply "I attack three times", but that is the worse thing you can do. There is a lot more things to do in combat than you had in 5e.
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So, you're query, without more specifics, is a bit layered. So far I have Extinction: Curse AP and Animal (Monkey) Trainer.
If you're only concerned about roleplaying, then simply tell your GM that your character is the monkey handler for the circus. Heck, you can even have a barrel of monkeys as pets. There is nothing in the system that prevents you from having pets. You just can't get any system or mechanical benefit from them like you can with Animal Companions or Familiars. Note, Command an Animal is an Untrained Skill Action (Nature).
If you don't care about having an animal companion or a familiar, but you want to be able to actually Train Animals, then you'll need to be trained in Nature and take the Skill Feat.
There are also a couple things that can flesh out the Monkey Trainer basic concept, the https://2e.aonprd.com/Backgrounds.aspx]Backgrounds Animal Whisperer and Animal Wrangler from the Extinction Curse AP, or an Orc with the ancestry feat Beast Trainer.
Now, if you want an Animal Companion that you can do more with, then you'll need to play a Animal Order Druid or a Ranger and take the Animal Companion Feat. Alternatively, play any Class and Archetype into either Animal Trainer from the AP or Beastmaster. You cannot take either until level 2, but you can start with a barrel of monkeys and make one a companion when you archetype.
Familiars, specifically monkeys, on the other hand, can do other, different stuff than companions and are available to Sorcerers and Wizards with a Feat, Witches without a feat, or, if you don't want to play a caster, with the Familiar Master archetype. (A Champion with a tiny Capuchin monkey familiar riding his shoulder would be... a sight.)
Sadly, though... while the word "monkey" pops up in numerous places on the Archives of Nethys there are no actual monkeys available.
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ASIDE: Writing that gave me an amusing (to me) character concept: Beastkin (Gorilla) Orc, Animal Wrangler (choosing Nature), Animal Instinct (Ape) Barbarian, with the Beastmaster Archetype named Cawng.
A half-gorilla orc in a breastplate training monkeys amuses me. . .
Or. . .
A Tailed Goblin (aka a "monkey goblin") Warpriest Cleric of Sun Wukong (The Monkey King), with Animal Whisper background and Animal Trainer Archetype. . . with a staff. . .
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Thanks so much guys, I haven't yet picked exactly what I want between all of these options but I would never have figured out all of this without your help. Given the vital advice to not focus on the circus too much I will probably first try to create a viable character but I like the idea of the Cawng build going all out into the concept :D
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You could always be a sprite and be a corgi trainer!
You just need a tiny chair and whip... ;)
. . . but I like the idea of the Cawng build going all out into the concept :D
Go for it!!!
I'd love to hear how it works out.
You could always be a sprite and be a corgi trainer!
You just need a tiny chair and whip... ;)
GGMAO!
Okay this made me giggle awful muchly hard!
Working on the Cawng idea, I came up with the following build. Let me know if you think it'll hold up.
Barbarian Ape instinct Orc
Animal Wrangler (Nature) background (just to be able to train animals but nothing beyond that)
Sudden charge
Hold-Scarred Orc heritage (gain Diehard feat)
Iron Fists
Train animal (free feat)
STR 18 DEX 12 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 10
Trained skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Intimidation, Lore: Apes, Nature, Survival
I have a few questions though
-Is it worth investing in Intimidation or should I forget about it altogether due to MADness?
-What should I look for if I want to basically be an indomitable savage who punches and grapples people going forward? Are Iron Fists helpful here?
-How much Dex and Wis would I need here?
-It's unclear to me how the grapple and unarmed bonus for the Ape instinct works as the core book doesn't really talk a lot about it. How does wearing a shield affect this?
-Should I bother getting any weapons at all since I can't use weapons during rages?
-Is it worth investing in Intimidation or should I forget about it altogether due to MADness?
-What should I look for if I want to basically be an indomitable savage who punches and grapples people going forward? Are Iron Fists helpful here?
-How much Dex and Wis would I need here?
-It's unclear to me how the grapple and unarmed bonus for the Ape instinct works as the core book doesn't really talk a lot about it. How does wearing a shield affect this?
-Should I bother getting any weapons at all since I can't use weapons during rages?
-If you find a way to use STR in your Intimidation, sure.
-It seems to me that Iron Fists are putting a Shove trait in your Ape attacks. Check with your GM if they agree.
-Usually, your AC is capped at Armor+Dex=5. So, if you are using a Breastplate or Chain Mail, your DEX is fine. Any boost you get isn't going to help your AC, but is going to help Reflex and some Skills(acrobatics, stealth...)
-Those traits means that you don't need a "free hand" and iten bonus to attacks(like those +1/+2/+3 in Handwraps) can add to your Athletics roll. A shield is fine, but note that if you attack with a Shield Bash, you activate your Anathema. That is not good. Shields only protects you if you spend an Action to "Raise Shield", and you only get it's damage reduction if you get the Shield Block feat.
-There is creatures that have resistances against each type of damage. If you find a creature with Resistance to Bludgeoning, it's a good idea to stop your Rage somehow and use a Piercing or Slashing weapon. If you fall uncounscious mid-battle, when you wake up you can't Rage again, so it's a good idea to have a backup plan to fight without rage.