I like the troop subtype, but I have a problem with the automatic damage. I can see if you're inside its space and being overwhelmed to a certain extent. Not having to roll to hit nullifies armour. Fighting a troop becomes a war of attrition.
Are there any suggestions to change combat up?
This is for a zombie apocalypse scenario.
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Just give troops regular attacks. Take the attack of the base type:
Zombie Slam +4 (1d6+4)
Give the troop four times as many attacks, with +4 to hit, each doing double damage. (This is roughly as dangerous as 16 regular attacks.)
Troop of Zombies: Slam +8/+8/+8/+8 (2d6+8)
Uncoordinated: Can't attack any one target more than twice per round; will always divide their attacks between all available targets rather than focusing on an individual.
Yes, it's automatic damage within range because you're getting poked at by ten guys at once and your shield won't stop that. The alternative is don't use troops.
Yes, it's automatic damage within range because you're getting poked at by ten guys at once and your shield won't stop that.
Yeah, +5 Mithral Full Plate and a +5 Tower Shield are well known for being completely worthless against ten guys poking at you. That's why, historically, knights used to fight peasant spearmen while completely naked. It's the same protection, and doesn't slow you down as much.
There's no such thing as +5 mithral plate in the real world, Matthew Downie. If you don't like the mechanics - you don't have to use it.
Just give troops regular attacks. Take the attack of the base type:
Zombie Slam +4 (1d6+4)
Give the troop four times as many attacks, with +4 to hit, each doing double damage. (This is roughly as dangerous as 16 regular attacks.)
Troop of Zombies: Slam +8/+8/+8/+8 (2d6+8)
Uncoordinated: Can't attack any one target more than twice per round; will always divide their attacks between all available targets rather than focusing on an individual.
Yeah, this is a horrible idea. Just use regular zombies.
LOL! What if a troop is being attacked by a bunch of Pcs at the same time? Matthew Downie, your answer seems to be going in the right direction. Thanks for the suggestion.
Zombie Hoards will be surrounded by stragglers consisting of 1D4 zombies.
I think there needs to be a squad template. Something that suits 4-6 medium characters.
Armor doesn't protect against damage it protects against being hit. A natural 20 always hits. Twenty archers, on average, will hit once regardless of how terrible their bonuses are. That's what swarm/troop damage is meant to represent. It's not so much automatic as inevitable (which sounds perfect for a zombie apocalypse, personally).
We're not talking about four or five zombies taking a swing at someone, we're talking forty zombies climbing over each other to each take a swing/bite at someone. Again, by pathfinder rules, on average two of them will hit no matter how many penalties you add for squeezing, power attack, whatever.
If you don't like that the damage is automatic you could calculate the chance of hitting and use that. Start with 20 or 40 zombies (for ease of calculation), figure out what they'd need to actually hit, multiply the damage by every hit. So assuming 20 AC either 5 or 10 zombies hit (I'll ignore crit chance) for 5d6+20 or 10d6+40 damage. That sounds lethal for 5th level characters. At higher levels the damage would go down but by that point the zombie troop isn't supposed to be a threat anymore. And even then it's doing 1d6+4 or 2d6+8 which is about what it'd be doing as troop damage anyway.
But that same horde should go down to a single fireball.
I think there needs to be a squad template. Something that suits 4-6 medium characters.
No there doesn't.
But that same horde should go down to a single fireball.
It probably will. It does 50% more damage.
It probably will. It does 50% more damage.
But that same horde should go down to a single fireball.
No, it won't. A 10d6 fireball only does about 50 damage average on a failed save WITH the extra 50% damage.
then it's your job as GM to reason out why.
Some zombies get cover from the wall of zombies in front of them, a couple zombs were REALLY moist, one guy was a firefighter in his life and some semblance of a spark of his former life told him the best way to survive, etc...Hit points and damage are a artistic dance not an exact science modeling the real world.
But that same horde should go down to a single fireball.The troop mechanic is an abstraction. There's way more glaring oddities than just "should be killed entirely by AoE effects". A troop at one HP still has just as many members and is just as effective as one at full health. But do one damage to it and they just decide "eh, screw it, the rest of us give up". For pit traps if the leading edge falls in do all the rest have to slapstick their way in after them? For the fireball, as someone else said, maybe the other zombies provide total cover. But that's the way it works. The explanation is left to the GM.
The thing is that for small and larger critters you do not need an abstraction. In fact the abstraction counters the rest of the system's mechanics.
No, it won't. A 10d6 fireball only does about 50 damage average on a failed save WITH the extra 50% damage.It probably will. It does 50% more damage.
But that same horde should go down to a single fireball.
That depends. Troops vary in CR so depending on the level the ratios change a bit, but a dedicated blaster will have a pretty easy go of tearing apart troops as they should. It might not die in a single spell, but demolishing it or heavily injuring it with 1 is enough.
A fireball from an uninitiated wizard fresh to battlefield work? It'll hurt but it's what troops kind of expect so they mitigate it as best they can. A war evoker or fire sorcerer? That'll rout them right quick.
In my various experiments with variant troops, I've attempted solutions to a lot of these "rules that contradict the usual mechanics" problems. I've tried letting a fireball just wipe out everyone affected, if that's what would happen normally. (Eg, if each individual in the troop has 10HP, and the fireball does 20HP per square, then the troop takes 10HP of damage per square hit.) It works OK, though it makes the martials feel a bit unnecessary.
I also had an attack routine that got weaker the fewer hit-points remain (which makes the stat block more complicated to look at/generate, but runs pretty smoothly) and I had the troop get smaller the fewer entities were left.
Still more practical than running dozens of individual creatures with their own HP scores.