2 - Hands of the Devil (GM Reference)


Abomination Vaults

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This is a spoiler-filled resource thread for the second volume of the Abomination Vaults AP, Hands of the Devil by Vanessa Hoskins.

The GM Reference thread for the first volume, Ruins of Gauntlight, is here.

The GM Reference thread for the third and final volume, Eyes of Empty Death, is here.


Glaives are deadly d8. Hellforged is +1 dice size on deadly. The Barbazu with Hellforged Glaive statblock states 1d8 and I believe it should be 1d10.


In the map of the Arena, there are 2 B7. One must be B8.

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SuperBidi wrote:
In the map of the Arena, there are 2 B7. One must be B8.

Yes! The room south of B7c should be B8

Developer

Dr A Gon wrote:
Glaives are deadly d8. Hellforged is +1 dice size on deadly. The Barbazu with Hellforged Glaive statblock states 1d8 and I believe it should be 1d10.

That's correct, and it's true for every barbazu using one (in areas C24, D5, and D10).


Ron Lundeen: Thank you for the clarifications.


Belcorra was defeated by the Roseguard. Players get the Roseguard's signature artifacts, and they're all low level items. How did Belcorra lose?

Anyway if I were to replace these with levelling Relics, that could level with the PCs and attain the required level of power to challenge Belcorra, would there be a problem with book 3? Should I emphasise or ban certain powers when creating these?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dr A Gon wrote:

Belcorra was defeated by the Roseguard. Players get the Roseguard's signature artifacts, and they're all low level items. How did Belcorra lose?

Anyway if I were to replace these with levelling Relics, that could level with the PCs and attain the required level of power to challenge Belcorra, would there be a problem with book 3? Should I emphasise or ban certain powers when creating these?

I already decided to use relics before I found out the items were statted out, Otari's Lockpick kit aside, so I made a few changes. The dagger he left in the minotaur skeleton became his 'relic' for our rogue, and I'll be adjusting some of the others. However, our overly-inquisitive investigator may find the copy of The Whispering Reeds to also be calling to him...

Developer

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Dr A Gon wrote:
Anyway if I were to replace these with levelling Relics, that could level with the PCs and attain the required level of power to challenge Belcorra, would there be a problem with book 3? Should I emphasise or ban certain powers when creating these?

No, I think that would be kind of neat. I think you should emphasize the themes of each member of the Roseguard that are present in the items, and you can't really go wrong.


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On the interactive map of the prison level, there's no way to disable the dotted lines indicating the crawlspace from the hidden entrance in D17 to D21. Characters shouldn't be able to see this from the D17 side as they would have to pass through the illusory floor in that cell.

Liberty's Edge

dracul104 wrote:
On the interactive map of the prison level, there's no way to disable the dotted lines indicating the crawlspace from the hidden entrance in D17 to D21. Characters shouldn't be able to see this from the D17 side as they would have to pass through the illusory floor in that cell.

Yup. I fixed it with copy+paste and the spot healing brush/ patch tool in Photoshop.

You can do a pretty good repair with GIMP and copy/paste, albeit without the sophisticated in context tools that Photohsop provides.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm really looking forward to my players reaching the Warped Brew Tavern.

Anyone got any suggestions for music that the band could be playing?


King Gizzard and Lizard Wizard. It is all I can think of with those four.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I noticed a couple of times that its lists treasure as Alchemist Tools (expanded) (C25 for example) but I can't seem to find the item. There is an Alchemist Lab (expanded), so I planned on using that, but if there are expanded alchemist tools, where can I find them?


Kasoh wrote:
I noticed a couple of times that its lists treasure as Alchemist Tools (expanded) (C25 for example) but I can't seem to find the item. There is an Alchemist Lab (expanded), so I planned on using that, but if there are expanded alchemist tools, where can I find them?

Same thing here. I take the expanded Alchemist Lab to use.

Alchemist tools in Nethys.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?Category=6&Subcategory=10

But dont make sense at all.

Developer

Kasoh wrote:
I noticed a couple of times that its lists treasure as Alchemist Tools (expanded) (C25 for example) but I can't seem to find the item. There is an Alchemist Lab (expanded), so I planned on using that, but if there are expanded alchemist tools, where can I find them?

Ah! You must have the updated version of the Core Rulebook. This was an item in the first printing, but doesn't exist any longer. It was worth 55 gp, if you want to replace it with something of similar value.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

What's the DC for the dreshkan's needle spray? I plan to just infer from its stats (L4, Dex +5, probably trained, so DC 21) or just a level-based DC, but isn't it usually listed in the attack?


Merric Varethian wrote:
What's the DC for the dreshkan's needle spray? I plan to just infer from its stats (L4, Dex +5, probably trained, so DC 21) or just a level-based DC, but isn't it usually listed in the attack?

I used DC 20, and it worked out okay.

But would not mind an official answer.

Developer

Officially, then, use a DC of 21 for this saving throw.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I was warned by a GM of a plot line not quite lining up between books 1 and 2 of Abom. Anyone have a clue what it is?

Developer

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GimmeYourShoes wrote:
I was warned by a GM of a plot line not quite lining up between books 1 and 2 of Abom. Anyone have a clue what it is?

I am also very interested in this answer.


I honestly don't know what this is a reference to, I haven't noticed any story beats that go missing between books 1 and 2.

Although, truth be told I only ever have that issue if a new adventure book has weak connective tissue to the previous adventure. And Abomination Vaults couldn't be more interconnected.

Maybe there's a story seed that the GM expected more detail on, but was supposed to just be a seed. Lot's of adventures have seeds like that, and their good avenues creativity on purpose,is my understanding.


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Someone in this module really hates rogues. Lots of creatures with All Around Vision preventing flanking or immunity to precision damage. Hopefully won't be as noticeable the deeper the players get.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
Someone in this module really hates rogues. Lots of creatures with All Around Vision preventing flanking or immunity to precision damage. Hopefully won't be as noticeable the deeper the players get.

I ended up house ruling that ghost touch runes allow precision damage on ghosts at least, it doesn't solve all the problems but with a swashbuckler and a precision ranger they were getting totally destroyed by ghosts, and ghost touch allowed precision damage on ghosts in PF1E, not sure why that was changed. Not like a swashbuckler or rogue does more damage than a fighter who optimizes for damage anyway, and fighters get 100% of their damage on ghosts back with the rune.


Dartraks wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Someone in this module really hates rogues. Lots of creatures with All Around Vision preventing flanking or immunity to precision damage. Hopefully won't be as noticeable the deeper the players get.
I ended up house ruling that ghost touch runes allow precision damage on ghosts at least, it doesn't solve all the problems but with a swashbuckler and a precision ranger they were getting totally destroyed by ghosts, and ghost touch allowed precision damage on ghosts in PF1E, not sure why that was changed. Not like a swashbuckler or rogue does more damage than a fighter who optimizes for damage anyway, and fighters get 100% of their damage on ghosts back with the rune.

I did exactly the same thing. I have a four person party with a Swashbuckler, a Precision Ranger, and a Rogue (and an Oracle, whose Greatsword + Magic Weapon is the only reason they survived against Incorporeal before they got Ghost Touch runes).

The All Around Vision isn't so bad because the Swash has Tumble Behind and the Rogue has Scout's Charge and they're both using Rapiers so the crit effect comes up regularly.

Volluk Azrinae absolutely stomped them before they came back (after fleeing) loaded to the gills with AoE and 1 rounded him.


I'm setting up the map for level 6. Putting monsters in. Am i missing something about their size? How are they supposed to fit in some of these spots?


Just a typo: The room D22 is called D21 in the description (so there are 2 D21s).


Hey, I have been reading through the book and the devil Urevian who wants Carman Rajani's soul says that he has committed murder in his past. But reading about Carman in the toolbox section of the book, there is nothing about him murdering anyone. Is the devil just saying it to make it easier for the players to take the deal, or did I miss something about Carman somewhere in the book?


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vdubxray wrote:
Hey, I have been reading through the book and the devil Urevian who wants Carman Rajani's soul says that he has committed murder in his past. But reading about Carman in the toolbox section of the book, there is nothing about him murdering anyone. Is the devil just saying it to make it easier for the players to take the deal, or did I miss something about Carman somewhere in the book?

I don't think they explicitly state it, but could be part of his many crimes. Or it could be a lie.


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vdubxray wrote:
Hey, I have been reading through the book and the devil Urevian who wants Carman Rajani's soul says that he has committed murder in his past. But reading about Carman in the toolbox section of the book, there is nothing about him murdering anyone. Is the devil just saying it to make it easier for the players to take the deal, or did I miss something about Carman somewhere in the book?

My group didnt want to take the deal and so tried to fight him. Unfortunately he split the party with Wall of Force and their fighter was trapped with him and bleeding to death with a very unpleasant infernal wound. The ended up having to make a deal or lose their fighter which none of them were happy about but that's devils for you.


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andreww wrote:
vdubxray wrote:
Hey, I have been reading through the book and the devil Urevian who wants Carman Rajani's soul says that he has committed murder in his past. But reading about Carman in the toolbox section of the book, there is nothing about him murdering anyone. Is the devil just saying it to make it easier for the players to take the deal, or did I miss something about Carman somewhere in the book?
My group didnt want to take the deal and so tried to fight him. Unfortunately he split the party with Wall of Force and their fighter was trapped with him and bleeding to death with a very unpleasant infernal wound. The ended up having to make a deal or lose their fighter which none of them were happy about but that's devils for you.

Nice job. You forced the players to learn the lesson that you don't always win and get to do the right thing.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I know it's a pretty standard convention, but I wish the map numbering did not revert to A with the start of this book. I doubt many people will run book 2 or book 3 on its own, and it would make more sense to have the map numbered sequentially since it's all one big dungeon. So maps A through K instead of A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D-A-B-C.

Developer

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goodkinghadrian wrote:
I know it's a pretty standard convention, but I wish the map numbering did not revert to A with the start of this book. I doubt many people will run book 2 or book 3 on its own, and it would make more sense to have the map numbered sequentially since it's all one big dungeon. So maps A through K instead of A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D-A-B-C.

I don't disagree. I'd further say that this book should have chapters 5, 6, and 7, rather than 1, 2, and 3.


Witchfire in D17 is pretty nasty given the terrain. Highly mobile flight with lots of cover and long range attack. My party had to retreat and regroup.


The transparent walls written in Book 2 area C4, C5, C8 and C9 are really walls or more parapet. Is possible to go for C4 low-level to up-level?
I m confuse.


A 5th level counteract check to remove the Witchflame with a DC of 26 using a spell that must remove curses. Nasty creature in a module with devils. I have a few characters walking around permanently on fire.

Dark Archive

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I'm confused about the actions taken by the seugathi researcher in C8.

A seugathi researcher observes the destrachan in the testing grounds and takes notes on a writing slate. Upon noticing the intruders, the seugathi
becomes eager to see how the destrachan performs in combat; they retreat as soon as possible to the east end of the gallery to turn the wall ethereal. Once the wall is no longer solid stone, the destrachan’s echolocation allows it to recognize the heroes’ presence and join in combat as the seugathi directs, together presenting a severe-threat encounter for 6th-level characters.

I'm not sure what wall is turning ethereal and where the researcher is supposed to be moving from and to. Does he start in the area by the table with the stairs to B21? Does he start by where C8 is labeled on the map?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The corner of the Arena with the mimics and hoppers over the Hydra pit was a great encounter. I got to have the mimics shove the party barbarian down the shaft, awaken the Hydras only to escape back up into the mimic fight. A minute or two later, they enter the 'Why do we have that lever' room and the hoppers shove the barbarian down again, even closer to the Hydras. So the party fighter jumps down after the Barbarian while the ranger and oracle take potshots from the floor above, while the Barbarian is without their weapon and wounded 3 next to two hydras.

And no one knows how to kill them.

Most fun I've had with PF2 yet. The way the mimics and Hydras abilities force the party actually engage with their unique abilities and the way the rooms were designed to encourage people being shoved down pits came together in a really fun way.


masterslate wrote:

I'm confused about the actions taken by the seugathi researcher in C8.

A seugathi researcher observes the destrachan in the testing grounds and takes notes on a writing slate. Upon noticing the intruders, the seugathi
becomes eager to see how the destrachan performs in combat; they retreat as soon as possible to the east end of the gallery to turn the wall ethereal. Once the wall is no longer solid stone, the destrachan’s echolocation allows it to recognize the heroes’ presence and join in combat as the seugathi directs, together presenting a severe-threat encounter for 6th-level characters.

I'm not sure what wall is turning ethereal and where the researcher is supposed to be moving from and to. Does he start in the area by the table with the stairs to B21? Does he start by where C8 is labeled on the map?

The transparent wall separating C8 from C9. Yes, the entire thing - C8 runs all the way from the area close to C5 all the way down to the door into C23.

Yes, I interpreted it as the researcher starting by that table.

It runs all the way up and then east to reach the east wall just south of the secret door leading into C3 (right next to C5). That wall is described in the text (though not on the map) as having the control glyphs for the transparent wall.


Bardo_RS wrote:

The transparent walls written in Book 2 area C4, C5, C8 and C9 are really walls or more parapet. Is possible to go for C4 low-level to up-level?

I m confuse.

Not exactly sure what you're asking - perhaps it's a language barrier thing?

The transparent walls are really walls, yes. There are also transparent walls on the upper level ("Level 5: the Arena"), though much smaller:

- from B19 out to B10
- from the corridors leading to B20 into the B22/B23 rooms as well as into B25

Yes it should be possible to go from C4 back up to B12 and B13 on the upper level ("Level 5: the Arena").

At least you can go from B12 and B13 down into the water of C4. (And also down from B2 & B4 into C2 & C6). Whether it is actually possible to climb/fly back up again is for you to decide, maybe the trap doors cannot be opened from the underside?


Ron Lundeen wrote:

I don't disagree. I'd further say that this book should have chapters 5, 6, and 7, rather than 1, 2, and 3.

Damn you for being agreeable and reasonable!!

Don't you know that forums like these feed on disagreement!?

;-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Do you think it's appropriate for Urevian to show up prior to D10?

I would like for him to state his proposal from a position of strength. Maybe via a projection/illusion?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Zapp wrote:

Yes, I interpreted it as the researcher starting by that table.

It runs all the way up and then east to reach the east wall just south of the secret door leading into C3 (right next to C5). That wall is described in the text (though not on the map) as having the control glyphs for the transparent wall.

This was my interpretation as well, though I am not really sure how it's supposed to work in practice since the pathway is too narrow for the large sized Seugathi Researcher. Maybe this is my own misunderstanding of the rules, but I am not sure how a large sized creature is supposed to move through an area smaller than they are. There is an exploration Squeeze action, but that's not really applicable in a combat situation as described.

I am probably going to give the Seugathi a wand of shrink; it makes sense with their Magic Item Mastery ability. The fact that they'll have to spend 2 actions activating it gives the players an opportunity to stop the seugathi before it reaches the controls to release the destrachan.


*shrug* I just ruled a worm is long and thin, and can easily move through single-wide corridors. It still needs 2x2 squares to fight effectively, though.

For something fat and wide, maybe a giant toad or something, it would make much more sense to apply the squeezing rules.

All in my opinion

Dark Archive

Huh. My party decided to recruit Carman Rajani for a redemption quest of sorts instead of turning him in xD


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If your players get on Chafkem's good side, he offers them a map of the arena.

I've made this little handout for my group.

Google Drive link


Why does Jafaki have a wand of magic missiles heightened to 2nd-level? As well all know Magic Missile is a 1st level spell and it requires heightening by 2 levels to get the next iteration, so 3rd to get 2 missiles per action. As far as I can tell it shouldn't do anything more than a 1st level wand apart from be more expensive.
Maybe as a 5th level item it could be a wand of manifold missiles (1st).
What's the intention here, any ideas anyone?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Qaballa wrote:

Why does Jafaki have a wand of magic missiles heightened to 2nd-level? As well all know Magic Missile is a 1st level spell and it requires heightening by 2 levels to get the next iteration, so 3rd to get 2 missiles per action. As far as I can tell it shouldn't do anything more than a 1st level wand apart from be more expensive.

Maybe as a 5th level item it could be a wand of manifold missiles (1st).
What's the intention here, any ideas anyone?

I personally switched it to a 3rd-level Wand of Magic Missiles since I had the same thought, and it wasn’t too powerful of an item to hand my players.


willfromamerica wrote:
I personally switched it to a 3rd-level Wand of Magic Missiles since I had the same thought, and it wasn’t too powerful of an item to hand my players.

That was my first thought but no one in the group can use it so selling a lvl 7 wand would net more cash for them. Ended up changing it to Sound Burst, so the divine caster could use it.

But that doesn't alter the inquiry.


Qaballa wrote:

Why does Jafaki have a wand of magic missiles heightened to 2nd-level? As well all know Magic Missile is a 1st level spell and it requires heightening by 2 levels to get the next iteration, so 3rd to get 2 missiles per action. As far as I can tell it shouldn't do anything more than a 1st level wand apart from be more expensive.

Maybe as a 5th level item it could be a wand of manifold missiles (1st).
What's the intention here, any ideas anyone?

It would affect counterspell / counteract checks. Not great I agree but does do 'something'.

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