Thinking of a couple related builds (these are very not minmaxed, but still want to optimize them as much as possible within the constraints).
In each case, they’re a ¾ BAB, Charisma-based d8 caster class (Oracle/Summoner) that has taken eldritch Heritage and gotten claws. This will allow them to fight in melee with decently effective weapons for a certain number of rounds a day. However, what will they do the rest of the time? Some of the time, it will be spellcasting, but they are likely to have to fight hand to hand without their claws at least a bit.
For efficiency’s sake, they should probably take Improved Unarmed Strike (or get a permanent natural weapon in some way) so they can focus on having a really nice Amulet of Mighty Fists rather than that and a weapon. Beyond that, what if anything would be worth the expenditure of feats to pursue?
Flavor:
1) Unchained Summoner who has a non-combat skill monkey eidolon and the full suite of Abyssal bloodline. In combat, casts Summon Monster and then fights alongside his summons.
2) Reaper Oracle with the first-level Ghoul bloodline, professional wrestling-style unarmed striker/grappler
Slotting a Deep Red Sphere Ioun Stone gets you Improved Unarmed Strike for 'free'. Or, a gauntlet.
Typically natural attacks/unarmed have issues with DR, so finding a way to get materials DR (cold iron/silver/etc) is useful. Or just do enough damage per swing that you don't really care if you lose 15.
Consider an unarmed combat style, like Crane/Snapping Turtle/Grabbing/Jabbing/Panther/etc. Not that they will work with Claws outside of Feral Combat Training.
Good to know that the style feats are heavily taxed.
If I’m reading things right, I want a cestus (and then don’t need either that ioun stone or the improved unarmed strike feat, right?), but (a) not to enchant the cestus, instead relying on an amulet of mighty fists, and (b) all or most style feats are going to be more trouble than they’re worth for a secondary weapon.
To clarify, are you interested in making an unarmed combat caster, or are you trying to find a way to make those two builds function usefully?
Be a Tengu with a Bite and Claws from the start, wear a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, take all 10 levels of the Evangelist PrC for a tail and Sting whilst in Spiritual Form...
A perfectionist shavtoosh is another way of making improved unarmed strike a minor gold tax rather than a feat tax. A cestus or gauntlet is cheaper than anything magic but few feats help with their use, they truly are emergency weapons.
An oracle can cast touch attack spells in melee. Summoners have a worse spell list for this and not enough spell slots really.
Grappling tends to take all the feats available. Besides improved, greater and rapid grapple there's a bunch of other feats which are tempting. Including styles devoted to grappling - these are good enough that it may be worth the feat tax to use them with claws too.
How to make a summoner an effective unarmed combatant (without grappling) is a harder ask. They won't have significant damage easily; power attack or piranha strike helps but isn't enough on its own. There are stunning fist-alikes but they have a pitiful number of uses/day for a non-monk. They could possibly focus on aid another instead, there are ways to make that a significant bonus and it doesn't depend on using a weapon.
Lelomenia wrote: To clarify, are you interested in making an unarmed combat caster, or are you trying to find a way to make those two builds function usefully? The latter, really. There's a bunch of threads on unarmed combat, but I was specifically interested in exploring these ideas. If they prove unfeasible I'll go back to the drawing board.
avr wrote: An oracle can cast touch attack spells in melee. Summoners have a worse spell list for this and not enough spell slots really.
Grappling tends to take all the feats available. Besides improved, greater and rapid grapple there's a bunch of other feats which are tempting. Including styles devoted to grappling - these are good enough that it may be worth the feat tax to use them with claws too.
How to make a summoner an effective unarmed combatant (without grappling) is a harder ask. They won't have significant damage easily; power attack or piranha strike helps but isn't enough on its own. There are stunning fist-alikes but they have a pitiful number of uses/day for a non-monk. They could possibly focus on aid another instead, there are ways to make that a significant bonus and it doesn't depend on using a weapon.
I agree that the Summoner will have a harder time of it. What are some of the Aid Another strategies? Since they'll be in the midst of their summoned buddies, that could be an interesting angle.
Ring of Tactical Precision loaded with Harrying Partners.
Arcane Strike and the Gloves of Arcane Striking.
Be a Helpful Halfling.
Take the Battlefield Disciple trait.
VMC Cavalier for the Order of the Dragon/Aid Allies.
Take the Succor Mystery for Perfect Aid/Swift Aid, and Teamwork Mastery.
The Effortless Aid Invedtigator Talent.
Combat Reflexes/Bodyguard.
VoodistMonk's listing a bunch of tricks to help aid another there.
The halfling race helpful trait is better than the combat helpful trait, and can be accessed by non-halflings via the social adopted trait if it fits your background.
Combat reflexes and bodyguard are feats.
I think the rest are self-explanatory. A couple others to note are the jungle opportunist trait if you're catfolk, and the magic trick (unseen servant) feat or the allied cloak spell if your GM allows your bonuses to apply to spell effects controlled by you.
I like the Arcane Strike/helpful halfling combo. Plus Swift Aid and the ability to cast Haste, the summoner could give multiple summoned creatures some good bonuses to attack. And benevolent weapon.
The others are cool but seem less suitable for aiding summoned creatures.
Definitely fits the bill of giving them additional categories of useful battlefield actions.
Thanks!
avr wrote: VoodistMonk's listing a bunch of tricks to help aid another there.
The halfling race helpful trait is better than the combat helpful trait, and can be accessed by non-halflings via the social adopted trait if it fits your background.
Combat reflexes and bodyguard are feats.
I think the rest are self-explanatory. A couple others to note are the jungle opportunist trait if you're catfolk, and the magic trick (unseen servant) feat or the allied cloak spell if your GM allows your bonuses to apply to spell effects controlled by you.
Thank you the follow-up to add context to my response... I was waiting for a model to load at work, and didn't have time to fully explain my post.
I didn't know about the Magic Trick:Unseen Servant...
I have a Helpful Halfling Inspired-Internal Alchemist VMC Cavalier that can get:
Helpful
Battlefield Disciple
Combat Reflexes/Bodyguard
Effortless Aid Investigator Talent
Arcane Strike and the gloves thereof
Order of the Dragon/Aid Allies
Tactician/Harrying Partners
They need to take the Spell Knowledge Discovery to get Arcane Strike and the gloves... so I might as well make that one spell be Unseen Servant, and add Magic Trick to the build...
Best. Cohort. Ever.
Halflings also can get Human Shadow, which lets them "use Stealth to hide behind creatures at least one size category larger than themselves, without any other source of concealment or cover." Which would be flavorful for this build, and avoid the "human raised by halflings" cheese.
Could still use Long Arm to get reach, though not Enlarge Person-->Long Arm for 15 foot reach.
But with Invisibility, Haste, and a Benevolent weapon, they could be granting multiple summons 6 or more to hit, plus arcane strike to damage, which is cooler than my original conception.
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