Nexus staff charges


Rules Discussion


Quick question: when a wizard finds a staff and decides to craft its nexus staff within it, does the staff also maintain the charges it would have had from its normal daily preparations?

Shortly, a nexus staff can

Lvl 1-7 ( can expend 1 spell slot )
Lvl 8-15 ( can expend up to 2 spell slots)
Lvl 16+ ( can expend up to 3 spell slots)

And this is clear, since it's a self made staff.

What aboutabout when you insert the nexus staff inside an existing magical staff which gain charges depends your higher spell slot?

Quote:
You can Craft your makeshift staff into any other type of staff for the new staff's usual cost, adding the two spells you originally chose to the staff you Craft.

Will the wizard lose the base charges or will he be able to merge them with the ones from nexus staff?

I ask because if so, until lvl 8 the nexus staff would be inferior to any spellcaster using a staff, and even after half of the charges which were given for free would be a tax for him.

But really I can't understand the rules here.


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You don't put your Nexus staff inside another staff. What you are doing is upgrading your Nexus staff so that it now has the powers of a magical staff (plus the spell and cantrip that it already had). It's still your self-made Nexus staff so it is charged solely by sacrificing spell slots as you've described.


Thanks.

Can't really understand its purpose then ( especially before lvl 8 ).

Is being able to cast let's say 1/2/3/4 more fear per level, renouncing to a lvl 2/3/4 slot, somehow balanced if confronted to the other thesis?


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You are correct that this charging process doesn't have many advantages over that of normal staves until higher levels. The big plus is being able to have "true strike" on something other than a Staff of Divination.


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After 8th level, the charging process does let you do something similar to Spell Blending, though. If your staff let you cast a 5th level spell, for example, you could effectively give up a 2nd level spell and a 3rd level spell for that 5th level spell. That can be useful since lower level slots eventually lose a lot of value.


Gisher wrote:
After 8th level, the charging process does let you do something similar to Spell Blending, though. If your staff let you cast a 5th level spell, for example, you could effectively give up a 2nd level spell and a 3rd level spell for that 5th level spell. That can be useful.

Yeah, you will be saving a high level slot indeed, but it remains so so as thesis.

I was trying to create a wizard able to heal through a healing staff ( given a specific dedication in order to cast the appropriate heal rank ), but as you pointed out, until lvl 16+ you are exactly equal to any other spellcaster.

Unless your party plans to go on 8+ fights per day and you need to cast as many spells as possible ( for example, fear ) you won't probably be needing the nexus staff thesis.

Even if you plan to use a true strike on every single on hit spell you cast you could forgo that thesis, and simply stick with a staff of divination ( a number of true strike equal to the higher lvl spell you can cast, plus maybe a lvl 2/3/4 slot depends the level you are ). Or eventually, at some point, just buy a lvl 1 scroll which costs 4 golds.

...

I see that either Enchantment and Necromancy staff don't have respectively "sleep" and "Fear", so it might be interesting to have one of those spells at will on some other staff.


I agree with your assessment.


A question about Staff Nexus' interaction with other parts of the Wizard - Drain Bonded Item would not allow you to reclaim the spell slot that you put into your staff, correct? Or would it let you get that slot back, once per day?


HedwickTheWorldly wrote:
A question about Staff Nexus' interaction with other parts of the Wizard - Drain Bonded Item would not allow you to reclaim the spell slot that you put into your staff, correct? Or would it let you get that slot back, once per day?

That hadn't occurred to me. I took a quick glance at Drain Bonded Item and the rules for prepared casters and staves, and I think you could expend spells to charge the staff and replace them using Drain Bonded Item. That's really interesting.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
HedwickTheWorldly wrote:
A question about Staff Nexus' interaction with other parts of the Wizard - Drain Bonded Item would not allow you to reclaim the spell slot that you put into your staff, correct? Or would it let you get that slot back, once per day?
That hadn't occurred to me. I took a quick glance at Drain Bonded Item and the rules for prepared casters and staves, and I think you could expend spells to charge the staff and replace them using Drain Bonded Item. That's really interesting.

A crafty Universalist with Staff Nexus and Bond Conservation can "prime" their usage of Drain Bonded Item by feeding a parts of a combo to the staff, then letting Bond Conservation cascade down the other spells in that chain.

It requires a decent among of foreknowledge of your encounters that day to get the most out of it, but that's true for prepared casting in general.

Horizon Hunters

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You can not drain to regain the slots. Drain Bonded Item let's you re-cast a spell you've prepared and already cast. Spending slots to charge a staff happens prior to you preparing a spell in that slot, so it's essentially an empty and used slot.


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Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I always thought that once you upgraded to a more traditional staff, you also lose the staff nexus drawback.

So at 8th-level you could potentially have 12 charges, for example (4 from your daily prep, and 8 more from dropping 2 level 4 spells).

Is that not the case?

Grand Archive

Cordell Kintner wrote:
You can not drain to regain the slots. Drain Bonded Item let's you re-cast a spell you've prepared and already cast. Spending slots to charge a staff happens prior to you preparing a spell in that slot, so it's essentially an empty and used slot.

The rules are not clear on this. They do not specify what order daily preparations happen.

As for how powerful it is, I'd say not overly so. Staves are rarely to never in a situation where they can cast a level of spell equal to your highest. At best it is only 1 down. I suppose I just don't see a power spike in being able to DBI a spell sacrificed to a stave.

Edit: I suppose on DBI it has a stipulation that you have to have "cast" from the spell slot. So technically, the sacrificed slot does not qualify.


If it's a viable combo it could also be fun to combine with Drain Soul Cage for wizard liches ... and honestly Drain Soul Cage is one of the biggest draws to that archetype for me.


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Gisher wrote:
You don't put your Nexus staff inside another staff. What you are doing is upgrading your Nexus staff so that it now has the powers of a magical staff (plus the spell and cantrip that it already had). It's still your self-made Nexus staff so it is charged solely by sacrificing spell slots as you've described.

That fails the Too Bad To Be True test for me. That the Specialist Staff Thesis has the worst possible staff.

I don't read it like that. I see the restrictive charge as only applying to the initial staff. When you modify another staff, you add the 2 spells from your original staff to it, and ignore the special charging rule that was only there for a temporary staff.

The special staff is being specifically referred to, as separate to a normal staff, in the Staff Nexus charging section.

That special charging rule is only there to stop staff wizards from being overpowerful at level 1-3 where an extra spell slot would be a big advantage and no one else has a staff. There being only one level 3 staff, and only a couple at level 4 so early most wizards wouldn't have them.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Have to agree with Gortle and Ravingdork. The unique drawback only applies to the makeshift staff you start with, not any staff you upgrade it to later on. It's described as a property of the makeshift staff and the crafting ability only mentions adding the cantrip and spell to your new stuff.

Beyond that like... come on. Trading away the ability to recharge your staff normally for an extra cantrip? Having to expend a top level spell slot every day just to break even with what you'd get for free with a normal staff?
Instead of giving the Staff Nexus extra ability to recharge, you're making them worse at recharging a staff until level 16.

That seems easy to just throw right out.


Squiggit wrote:

Have to agree with Gortle and Ravingdork. The unique drawback only applies to the makeshift staff you start with, not any staff you upgrade it to later on. It's described as a property of the makeshift staff and the crafting ability only mentions adding the cantrip and spell to your new stuff.

Beyond that like... come on. Trading away the ability to recharge your staff normally for an extra cantrip? Having to expend a top level spell slot every day just to break even with what you'd get for free with a normal staff?
Instead of giving the Staff Nexus extra ability to recharge, you're making them worse at recharging a staff until level 16.

That seems easy to just throw right out.

*shrug* seems like the cost of adding True Strike to any staff you want: I'm personally fine with people having a worse recharge if they gain the ability to toss out a dozen True Strikes in addition to whatever else the staff would normally do. I might think differently if there as ever another 1st level spel added. :P


Gortle wrote:
Gisher wrote:
You don't put your Nexus staff inside another staff. What you are doing is upgrading your Nexus staff so that it now has the powers of a magical staff (plus the spell and cantrip that it already had). It's still your self-made Nexus staff so it is charged solely by sacrificing spell slots as you've described.

That fails the Too Bad To Be True test for me. That the Specialist Staff Thesis has the worst possible staff.

I don't read it like that. I see the restrictive charge as only applying to the initial staff. When you modify another staff, you add the 2 spells from your original staff to it, and ignore the special charging rule that was only there for a temporary staff.

The special staff is being specifically referred to, as separate to a normal staff, in the Staff Nexus charging section.

That special charging rule is only there to stop staff wizards from being overpowerful at level 1-3 where an extra spell slot would be a big advantage and no one else has a staff. There being only one level 3 staff, and only a couple at level 4 so early most wizards wouldn't have them.

You've convinced me. (Rather happily, since I love the Staff Nexus concept but disliked that charging restriction.)

Grand Archive

Quote:
You begin play with a makeshift staff of your own invention. It contains one cantrip and one 1st-level spell, both from your spellbook, but it gains no charges normally during your preparations; you must expend a spell slot to grant it charges in the same way you would add additional charges to a normal staff. You can Craft your makeshift staff into any other type of staff for the new staff's usual cost, adding the two spells you originally chose to the staff you Craft.

The wording seems to specifically change from "makeshift staff". I'd assume that once you Craft it into the "new staff" it works as a staff normally does. Only the makeshift staff operates as a makeshift staff.


Now that we have the Magus MC, there are a few feats that would be fun for a Staff Nexus Wizard to take if they want to occasionally use their staff as a weapon.

Grand Archive

I can't believe I never noticed it before, Magus dedication gives simple weapon proficiency...that could be huge for a wizard.

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